jadesfire: Bright yellow flower (Jack - beach turned away)
[personal profile] jadesfire


I'm writing this before I've opened my flist, to try and get down what I think, rather than what I think other people think. The only problem with this is that I'm having trouble pinning down what I think.

Torchwood Season 1 was a real stuttering start. Moments of brilliance accompanied by moments of poor writing, characters who couldn't settle down and a series that didn't seem to know quite what it wanted to be. Season 2 has felt much more mature, with a much greater sense of identity, much stronger writing and some incredible performances.

Against that, Exit Wounds held up extremely well, and while I don't think it was necessarily the best episode of the season, it was pretty damn close. Although I have to say that I'm now regretting saying a few weeks ago "either give Tosh something to do or give her a heroic death." Or am I? Probably not, since her death gave the character life and spirit that we haven't seen this season. No, I'm not glad she's dead, nor Owen, but they gave her a great exit and Naoko Mori pulled it off with aplomb.

I'll be saying more about everything when I write up for [livejournal.com profile] torchwood_meta later in the day, but one thing that did strike me about this episode was that it had a superb plot/character balance. The plot was really pretty thin. Jack's long-lost brother returns to wreak a terrible revenge. But they did what all good writing does, in taking a really simple idea and using it to push the characters as hard as they can. The simplicity meant that plot didn't get in the way of character moments, and everyone lived up to their brief.

Which is not to say that I didn't have any niggles. The pacing of the episode had been superb, right up until the last 5 or so minutes. I couldn't help but feel the confrontation between Jack and Gray should have been bigger somehow – it felt like something of an anti-climax. What it did do was shift the focus to Tosh and Owen, who certainly deserved it, but there wasn't enough of a rise to a climax for the quiet, thoughtful ending to sit entirely comfortably with me. But I'm an all-action girl, so that might just have been me.

I'm trying to persuade [livejournal.com profile] major_jim, who knows about these things, to write something about the ridiculousness of Owen's death set-up – apparently nuclear reactors don't work that way. Who knew? – but for the lay person, it was suitably satisfying, and I really like the way the production there, letting us imagine, which is always going to be so much stronger than showing us. Plus they didn't have to blow the room up that way, thus saving money. Most handy. I can't start typing about Tosh without sobbing all over the keyboard, but suffice it to say that she thoroughly deserved the hero's exit, and I though the whole scene was played to perfection.

One of the things science-fiction and Torchwood in general can do superbly when it's done well, is force characters to confront who they really are. The situations in Exit Wounds were so extreme that it strips the characters back to their most basic responses, and they all shone for it. I loved the scene between Gwen and Rhys, where he tells her she's a hero. Yes, the writing was a bit clumsy, and yes it felt a little forced on us, but I still thought it was important. Because that's what Gwen does – when faced with an impossible situation, she just steps up and gets on with it. I like her like this. Perhaps the only character who got short-changed was Ianto, who seemed to spend a lot of his time asking where Jack was, but the moments he did get, he absolutely seized. I still don't feel that S2 has given me a good grip on Ianto (if you see what I mean…) but the dry humour and the willingness to sacrifice himself did come through here, superbly. And in some ways, I really liked that he kept asking after Jack. Whatever their relationship is, it really matters to him, and he reacted as anyone would when someone they really, really care about is taken away.

There's another piece to follow on Jack, because my thoughts on that are so many that they're threatening to leak out of my ears. I loved Jack in this. Ruthless and tender, willing to sacrifice himself, determined to do the right thing, even when it hurts him. Willing to take 2000 years of being buried alive in order to save the people he loves. There are some minor niggles below (very minor and about as petty as you'd expect – look, I can't do the mature review thing forever, you know), but otherwise I thought the whole thing was just right. Although part of me was disappointed that he didn't kill Gray. Character-wise, I would have believed it, even if I also believe his reasons for not doing so. Plus, writers hate killing off potential plot devices.

The chemistry between James Marsters and John Barrowman was as great as ever, with JM shamelessly stealing every single scene he was in – damn, that man can act – and I loved the quiet moments between them. The quiet, accepting nod that Jack gives him while lying in that grave is going to stay with me for a while.

Which brings me to my minor, petty but annoying niggle. How did Jack's clothes survive? I mean, fine that he kept living and dying, living and dying, but his clothes pretty much would have rotted away over 2000 years. And it's not like they could have fitted him out with a new WWII greatcoat in 1901 (how cool were 1901 Torchwood, by the way? Go join [livejournal.com profile] tw_history for more!). It's a silly thing, but it spoiled that bit for me. Also, has anyone else done the maths? At one point in 1941, there were 4 Jacks in the same timeline, assuming The Empty Child coincides with Captain Jack Harkness, which I seem to remember it does. That's 2 Jacks, then you've got the one who's living the slow path from the Game Station to Torchwood, and now we have one in a Torchwood vault. If I hadn't sworn not to put any kind of reaction at all outside the cut, I would have used my "Jack's timeline makes my head hurt" icon…

I think I'm still processing the episode, which packed more of an emotional wallop than anything since Captain Jack Harkness. The ending left it a bit flat for me, but overall, it feels like Torchwood grew up at last. Of course, it feels like it was just in time to die, given the ending, but still. Grown up, well written, well acted and well produced science fiction. At last.

ETA2: One reaction I keep seeing is 'how did Jack not go mad?' Now, this didn't even occur to me because, well, he's Jack. This is a guy who's died over a thousand times (what was the number from 'Fragments'?) in the last 150 years. Who walked, er, fell into this death cycle willingly, believing he deserved it. Jack describes it as penance. People do extraordinary things for penance and do them willingly. I guess I just assume that having chosen this, Jack is determined to see it through. Not that it was't horrendous and harrowing and [insert adjective of choice], but that it wasn't forced on him, not completely. He chooses it. That makes a difference, to the Jack in my head, at least.


ETA: For some reason, the number and range of responses all over my flist are overwhelming me, and making me want to go curl up somewhere with a cuddly toy and a notebook. Comments when I can cope.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-04-05 06:43 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] becky-h.livejournal.com
It was a highly emotional episode. People are responding emotionally. That's a lot of strong reactions that are feeling not thought. That's overwhelming. It is totally not surprising that you want to curl up somewhere.

In short: *protects you*

(no subject)

Date: 2008-04-05 06:51 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jadesfire2808.livejournal.com
Yeah...I think it hit some nerves that I didn't even know I had, and it's left me a bit weepy. I have thinky thoughts as well as flailing emotions, but they're not talking to each other, and I need to give them time to settle. Also, I need to write like woah. Because Jack's going to kill me otherwise.

thanks. *snuggles up*

(no subject)

Date: 2008-04-05 06:45 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] avon-09.livejournal.com
I'm not reading this yet. Just want to give you a *hug*.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-04-05 06:52 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jadesfire2808.livejournal.com
*hugs back* thanks - hope you get to see it soon!

(no subject)

Date: 2008-04-05 06:55 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] avon-09.livejournal.com
I could see it now. I'm just not in the mood to cry.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-04-05 06:46 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] in-the-bottle.livejournal.com
If I hadn't sworn not to put any kind of reaction at all outside the cut, I would have used my "Jack's timeline makes my head hurt" icon…

LOL! That was kinda my reaction to that as well, except for the fact that I hadn't thought about the 4 Jacks in one place thing. And the clothes not decaying thing. You think the clothes're made out of some alien fabric that's guaranteed to not fall apart for 5000 years? That could explain it. ;)

(no subject)

Date: 2008-04-05 06:54 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jadesfire2808.livejournal.com
*snort* Yeah, that could do it. Just...4 Jacks. That's got to do something screwy to the timeline.

And we know we're all just miffed because we didn't get naked!Jack...You know those icons that say "unexpected nekkid Jack"? We're going to need "unexpected clothed Jack" ones instead ;D

(no subject)

Date: 2008-04-05 07:33 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] in-the-bottle.livejournal.com
Weeeelll... there've been half naked Jack, so that's kinda half way there?

(no subject)

Date: 2008-04-05 02:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fl-zed.livejournal.com
"We're going to need "unexpected clothed Jack" ones instead"
Very much so. Do you know any icon makers one can pester about making this?

(no subject)

Date: 2008-04-05 08:01 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] aeron-lanart.livejournal.com
**hugs you**

I haven't been able to comment on the ep at all, I don't know what sort of floodgates it would open so I'm going to save it all for Torchwood meta. I did have to give Owen another option though, so I wrote... denial fic (http://aeron-lanart.livejournal.com/42311.html)

(no subject)

Date: 2008-04-05 08:56 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jadesfire2808.livejournal.com
Yeah, I didn't really notice until I started clicking on other people's responses, then I found I was just...more upset than I realised. I suspect the fallout from this one is going to be like 'Doomsday' all over again. Thank goodness I took the comms off my watchlist!

*hugs back*

(no subject)

Date: 2008-04-05 08:35 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] miss-zedem.livejournal.com
*hugs you*

Can't say I noticed the clothes thing, but I did think about the number of Jack's wandering around in 1941 :)

I'm more intrigued that someone knew he was in the morgue. There has to have been a record of it somewhere - who kept that secret? The team doctor? The team techie? The team archivist? Someone had to know, to make sure that the Jack taking the slow path didn't find out. Or did he know all along what he was going to have to do, cos he's already done it? *headhurt*

I agree about the ending - it felt at odds with the rest of the episode, like they couldn't quite bring themselves to end on a down-note. There are so many things they could have done to improve the ending - make it more powerful. One thing I would have liked to see would have been them actually carrying on, not just Jack telling them they've got to carry on. But yes, on the whole, much love for this episode. Shaky science and all :)

(no subject)

Date: 2008-04-05 09:00 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jadesfire2808.livejournal.com
I was half asleep, thinking about Tosh when the clothes thing popped into my head. Don't think J was very impressed when I said it aloud...

I thought of that too. Although it does kind of explain why they've only ever opened one of the morgue drawers. And here's a thought - what if there are more Jacks in more of the vaults? Eep! I swear, I need a 'wibbly wobbly timey wimey' icon to go with the Jack timeline one.

The ending needed more of a kick, but I'm not sure how. Tosh's message was superb, and I could have finished there and been satisfied. The last scene kind of dulled the rest for me somehow.

*hugs back* I'm better now, just more sensitive than I realised, I think (oh, shush, I'm always the last to know these things ;))

(no subject)

Date: 2008-04-05 08:54 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] crystalshard.livejournal.com
*hugs*

I'm still not quite ready to make my own post about this, so I'll just agree with yours. I spent most of the episode hugging a stuffed bear - it was very comforting.

I loved it, overall, though I do have a few niggles. One - okay, Jack may not have gone mad after nearly 2000 years underground, but what about his memories? I have enough trouble remembering what I did last week, let alone last year. After 2000 years with nothing to remember except dying, would Jack be able to remember much? Or does he have super-enhanced 51st-century memory?

2 - [livejournal.com profile] major_jim is absolutely right. Nuclear reactors do not work like that. All that about venting the fuel - er, hello? Uranium rods. Are solid. I could just about buy venting the coolant, but that would make even less sense - venting the coolant would simply make things worse, in most cases. And venting into a control room? Not entirely sure of the design, but please. The control rooms, in any area where there's likely to be an explosion, are the most heavily-protected areas in the building. It makes no sense.

But it did give us a suitably noble ending for Owen, and really, a nuclear meltdown is about the only thing that could have destroyed him at that point.

Never thought about the Jack's clothing issue. It's a very good point.

The character moments in this? Brilliant. I loved it when Gwen was telling the police what to do, and Rhys was being so proud of her. And PC Andy was brilliant - he can rival Ianto for snark, I think. I think they should hire PC Andy. He'd fit in perfectly, with the possible caveat that he's too sane.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-04-05 09:05 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jadesfire2808.livejournal.com
I had a stuffed dog in one hand and J's hand in the other. He started to worry about losing fingers at one point ;)

The whole 'buried alive for 2000 years' thing makes me think of the 'held in chains for a year' thing from Doctor Who. It's the moment when the producer goes 'wouldn't it be cool if...' and doesn't stop to actually think through the logistics. Which fans do. I'm going for Jack not being alive for much of the time, and the scene with 1901 Torchwood being after he's done some serious screaming, raging, hysteria and pulling himself back together again. To survive as long as he has done without going mad, he's gotta be pretty resiliant, on a scale that doesn't apply to normal people.

Apparently one of the points about nuclear reactors is that they're designed NOT to meltdown like that at all - something along the lines of, if all the power goes out, the fuel rods are pulled out by gravity to stop everything going boom. And if there was enough power to close the doors, there'd be enough power for an 'open door' button. I'm really hoping to persuade him to post about it :)

Andy was indeed awesome, and I loved his scenes with Rhys and the others. And yes, they should absolutely hire him. Snarktastic!

(no subject)

Date: 2008-04-05 09:23 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] crystalshard.livejournal.com
From what I see, they need at least three (if not four) new team members.

1. A new medic/doctor (I'd love it to be someone ex-miliary, instead of civilian).

2. A new computer tech/language/programming person.

3. A new engineer, or at least someone who can do the heavy tech stuff. Gadgets are all very well, but who looks after and maintains the machinery? Who does the wiring? Who, in fact, does the plumbing? We haven't had anyone like that since Suzie.

4. PC Andy. Because he is awesome.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-04-05 09:13 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] aeshna_uk
I avoided all spoilers for this one like the plague (heck, I spent most of the week out of the country, though that was more convenient timing than extreme avoidance!) and I'm extremely glad I did. Beautifully done and while I'll miss Tosh terribly (I'm pretty certain that won't be the last we see of Owen), it was a good, heroic and touching end that serves as a timely reminder that working for TW is dangerous and invariably fatal. Really, they needed to (permanently) kill off someone at this stage and Tosh was always going to be the one most likely - Jack's immortal, Gwen's the female lead and carries Rhys and Andy with her, Owen had already had his go for the high tragedy, and Ianto is still just sort of vaguely there. Tosh rarely got much to do but I had a real sense of who she was and she will be missed.

(my flatmate's response was one of horror that they'd lost Tosh but still kept the f*cking useless teaboy!)

As for Jack - I think I long ago accepted that that greatcoat must be made of some magical substance that self-repairs, given the amount of damage it takes! The rest can be replaced. And he really can't have memories of all that time or else, yes, he would go bonkers, not to mention that focus and memories drift with time. I have a nagging bunny to do with Arthurian legend and the whole King Under the Hill thing there that will probably come out sooner than later. Plus, there is some serious crackfic to be written by someone NOT me, in which Alice doesn't find him in 1901 but Tony Robinson and the Time Team get the shock of their lives on a dig in Cardiff.... ;)

And now... well, there's Cap'n John still out there. And Rhys. And Martha. And Andy the TW-wannabe. And any number of other potential new recruits. I'll miss Tosh and Owen but at the same time I can let my reactions to the series settle a bit now and look ahead... and indeed back, because it's the Institute's history that really sold me on this show just as much as Jack's presence, and they've seeded in some quite beautiful scenes that fill that history out. Lots and lots to play with there! :D

Hmm, guess I ought to go rearrange my main flist again to shuffle back in all the folks I shuffled out on my "spoiler and doom'n'gloom avoidance" kick last month.... :)

(no subject)

Date: 2008-04-05 09:21 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jadesfire2808.livejournal.com
I'd seen rumours rather than spoilers, but have to say that 20 mins in, I thought it was going to be Ianto and Tosh rather than Owen and Tosh who bought it. Absolutely with you that they needed to kill off someone (permanently), I was just surprised, in a good way. Or as good as character death ever gets.

And I love those plot bunnies - I'll take the archaeology if you take the Arthurian legend ;D That sounds wonderful (the king under the hill, not the Time Team, which sounds silly, but fun). It can go with "Jack's Magic Greatcoat" in the 'cracked Torchwood fic' collection.

I think I needed reminding off all that - some of the stuff in the episode touched some personal nerves, not to mention the fact that I have a tendency to get too involved with the characters I write about. But you're dead on - there's still so much to play with there, and Jack goes on being all kinds of awesome, I've completely fallen for Gwen this season and I'm starting to get a handle on Ianto. And Tosh and Owen got fabulous deaths. And there's so much to play with. The glass is definitely half-full :)

(no subject)

Date: 2008-05-10 02:16 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] aeshna_uk
And I love those plot bunnies - I'll take the archaeology if you take the Arthurian legend ;D

Came out less Authurian than the original bunny implied - more a route march through selected points of Wikipedia 1900 years of Cardiff history - but it could do with an extra set of eyes to look it over, if you have time? :)

(no subject)

Date: 2008-05-10 02:24 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jadesfire2808.livejournal.com
You know, I'd forgotten all about this promised crack...I've just got rid of a plot bunny, so that sounds like just what I need. Excellent timing!

I'd love to look it over, if only because I'm now most intrigued! Am on jadesfire2808[at]yahoo.co.uk, or happy to work with filtered posts or whatever works for you.

Neat :D

(no subject)

Date: 2008-04-05 10:18 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dune-drd.livejournal.com
One thought about the reactor: IIRC Chernobyl happened because their reactor worked like it did on the episode *headdesks*

(no subject)

Date: 2008-04-05 06:00 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jadesfire2808.livejournal.com
Ah, the joys of TV science. I'm trying to prod the other half into looking into it properly. It's not working, but I'm keeping trying :)

(no subject)

Date: 2008-04-05 03:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] donutsweeper.livejournal.com
At one point in 1941, there were 4 Jacks in the same timeline, assuming The Empty Child coincides with Captain Jack Harkness,

Not sure about the timing of things... According to "Everything Changes" Jack disappeared/ was presumed dead at the end of "Doctor Dances" on January 21st 1941 during the height of the London Blitz... which doesn't quite work with "CJH" because the dance takes place Jan 20th 1941 and Jack tells Tosh real!Jack dies the next day and he futzed with the records to take his place, but meanwhile DW!Jack had been in London a little while before the Doctor and Rose tracked him down.

umm.. my head hurts now. I'm gonna go sit down...

(no subject)

Date: 2008-04-05 06:03 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jadesfire2808.livejournal.com
Hang on...surely that does work, for a few hours on 20th Jan, anyway.

Evening of 20th Jan - CJH-(our)Jack, TEC/TDD-in the blitz-Jack, Slow Path Jack and frozen Jack.

21st Jan - CJH-(our)Jack has gone home, TEC/TDD-Jack has gone with the Doctor and Rose, while the other two are still there.

That works. Doesn't it?

My brain hurts...

(no subject)

Date: 2008-04-05 06:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] donutsweeper.livejournal.com
what didn't work (to me) was if real!Jack (original Jack) didn't die till the 21st (the day after we meet him) then how did DWJack already establish himself with the name Jack when Jack wasn't dead until sometime the day that we meet him and he'd been using the name for some time?

(no subject)

Date: 2008-04-05 10:54 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] aeshna_uk
Yeah, there's not four at once, but rather two sets of three. So, on the 20th January 1941, we have frozen!Jack, TW1941!Jack and TW2007!Jack in the same timeline. Then TW2007!Jack goes home, and it's later in 1941 that TEC!Jack turns up, has a poke through existing casualty records and alters one that seems to fit, adopting the name before the TARDIS arrives. In the meantime, frozen!Jack is still being icy in Cardiff and TW1941!Jack is out there fighting the good fight somewhere or other. :)

(no subject)

Date: 2008-04-06 11:06 am (UTC)
snorkackcatcher: (Default)
From: [personal profile] snorkackcatcher
Didn't Jack imply that he'd been back to the Blitz (and Pompeii) quite often doing time scams? In which case there wouldn't just be the Jacks listed here, there would be multiple pre-Empty Child Jacks wandering around in 1941 ...

(no subject)

Date: 2008-04-06 04:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] donutsweeper.livejournal.com
ahhh yes, that's true.

(no subject)

Date: 2008-04-06 05:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rustydog.livejournal.com
making me want to go curl up somewhere with a cuddly toy and a notebook. Comments when I can cope.

I'm just impressed you were able to write this thoughtful and coherent analysis of the episode!

::hug::