In which there is pondering

[jadesfire]

Good morning, people. How's everyone today? I'm glad to report that the shoulder's a little better, and only feels like it has a splinter stuck in it rather than a knife. I count this as progress.

The anonymous feedback meme has given me a few things to think about, in a good way. In fact, the whole thing seems to have been positive, with people getting geniune crit, even if it's not always what I would technically call "concrit", in that it doesn't offer suggestions for improvement, and I'm not sure in a general meme you can get anything specific, but I digress.

My main problem, 'being too descriptive' I'm not sure I can do much about, although hopefully I've improved my character-writing over the last year to balance it out. It's important for all stories, oh anonymous commenters, not just fanfic! I admit to being a little puzzled by it, because what's too descriptive? How can I tell? Maybe I'll have to go ask...

Also, apologies to anyone else I've been annoying the hell out of with 'alright'. I did some hunting this morning, because I know why I use 'alright' so much, even if it annoys me sometimes as well. It's generally not considered to be a word, or at least, not a word that you should write down. I'm sure I was using it before this, but I really picked it up about six years ago from my friend from Wigan (Northern England) who greets people with "y'alright?". Also, people use it all the time in speech, and have been using it in print since the mid-nineteenth century, but not for anything 'official', only private correspondence. I'm still left with the dilemma of what to do if a character says 'alright', in the sense of 'okay' rather than 'entirely correct' (which the spelling is actually quite useful for differentiating) but I shall try to eliminate it from my descriptive prose.

In other writing news, I wrote my LFWS fic and hate it, so I'll be re-writing it, and I'm writing my Halloween fic today. If anyone's around this afternoon, I'll be whacking it in heretoutopia for any beta I can get, so if you feel like dropping it and prodding it, I'd be most grateful. *tempts you with pirates*

More importantly, I'm hopefully seeing fan_eunice tomorrow \o/ but she was complaining in her journal that she can't get a decent cup of coffee in the UK. Leaving aside the questions of a)what is a good cup of coffee and b)where has she been going for it, I want to try to find her something approaching at least an acceptable cup of coffee while she's in Oxford.

So. American people! Especially those of you from Chicago! What is a good cup of coffee? I know some of you have visited the UK. What's wrong with our coffee? I mean, apart from the list I could make myself. What's fan_eunice looking for that she's not getting?

Oxford people! This is going to be contentious but. Where's the best cup of coffee in Oxford? Although I like good coffee, I'll drink more or less anything when I need caffeine/something hot and wet, so I'm probably not the best judge.

I'm considering circumventing the problem by going to The Rose (is it still called that?) on The High, or maybe the Grand Cafe and hope that either the surroundings are nice enough that the coffee doesn't matter or that she'll have tea instead...

Comments

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

apropos of nothing, if you recall a bit back I was very confused because your default icon seemed to have changed? It's doing it again! And this time I have screencap evidence! So just so you know I'm not crazy, this is what I'm seeing right now:

You can understand my confusion! (http://pics.livejournal.com/xparrot/pic/000299fk)

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

*blinks*

*flails*

What the hell!!!!!! that's just....

*flails some more*

I had problems with another icon yesterday - it should have been 'Jack in chains'. Instead, I got a blonde in a red top. Very strange.

It's doing it just to mess with our heads...

[miss-zedem.livejournal.com]

There's nothing wrong with 'alright'. You're using it in creative writing, not in a formal report or essay or anything, which makes it absolutely fine. Usage is everything, and that variance is becoming more and more common - like 'different to' rather than 'different from', it will eventually replace the standard. It drives me INSANE when people pick up on stuff like this, because yes, there is a time and a place for careful and formal use of language, but FICTION ISN'T IT. Are you communicating what you mean? Yes. Does everyone know what you mean, even if that particular form isn't correct in whichever variety of English they speak. YES, unless they're one of those awful English speakers who looks down on anyone who doesn't use their variety. And as you say, it is a useful distinction between 'fine' and 'all correct'.

Oh and if we're going to start applying ridiculous, old-fashioned English rules to everything, then there's lots of things you (and indeed everyone else) are doing 'wrong'. Oh, hey, wait a minute - English has changed since the mid-20th Century? No, surely not. I mean, clearly it's a language like Latin, the rules for which can be codeified in 19th century school books and never change. Because it's not like it's a living language or anything.

(Oh noes! I started that last sentence with a conjunction! I must go and make a sacrifice to the grammar gods lest I be struck down. Because everyone knows applying the rules of Latin and Greek to a Germanic language like English makes perfect sense...)

Of all the stupid, petty, pathetic comments *seethes*

This comment brought to you by a Linguist who has not yet had her morning coffee.

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

Whoa, down girl. *passes coffee* I'm really not that bothered by it. I'll probably carry on using it in dialogue, for the reasons you say, but I'm actually not that keen on it in general prose (it's a thing, like not liking the phrase 'lover') - I want to be sure I'm using it because I mean to use it, not because I'm being lazy. It's a 50/50 thing as far as I'm concerned, but mostly I'm very careful about my choice of words, and that matters to me.

Although while we're on the subject, the one that really gets me is 'OK', which I like to see written as 'okay', especially in dialogue because it's become a word - no one even really knows what it stands for any more! The "you use too much description" comment bothered me more because I'm not entirely sure what it means.

Usage vs 'correct' forms is always going to be contentious, but this one I'm quite easy about. If it fits, I'll use it, if it doesn't, I won't. *shrugs* I'll worry about it later. Right now, I've got pirates to...whatever you do to pirates. Herd? Corral?

Maybe catch you later?

[fish-echo.livejournal.com]

Seconded! (Except for the bit about being a linguist.) I quite enjoy "correcting" people according to the rigid rules of High German, Classical Latin, several-centuries-ago English, etc when they bring up something that is in my mind over-reacting. Because they'll start out nodding along, and then end up going 'whaaaa?' when I get to the point about the locative or whatnot. It amuses me :)

[rustydog.livejournal.com]

I *like* how descriptive your writing is!

I've noticed "alright" of course (did a poll about it awhile back, before I started noticing it in your writing) and it's a bit of a pet peeve in general writing, but I understand the reasons for using it in fiction, especially dialogue, so I'm teaching myself not to mind. :) I'm making progress!

Coffee - this is way out of date, but when I was living over there in 1995 I never *saw* a single cup of coffee. This was before the explosion of Starbucks and gourmet coffee even in America. Since then, on British shows it seems like if I ever see coffee being made (except by Ianto) it's instant, and no American I know considers instant coffee "real" coffee. Coffee needs to be brewed, preferably fairly strong (though not strong like Turkish or Arabian coffee!) and served fresh. (Note: not all coffee around here is decent either.)

I like darker-roast beans and supposedly "robusta" aren't as good.

I don't know if that helps?

I hope you have a great weekend!

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

I've noticed myself using 'alright' more frequently lately, and while I won't stop using it in dialogue, I do want to cut back in narration unless it's essential for the narrator's voice. I want to write the way I write, but I don't want to tick people off on purpose, either ;)

Heh. I think they've just been going to the wrong places. Weirdly, when a friend of major_jim's was in America recently, he said all the coffee he'd been given was weak and 'flat' tasting. But then he likes a cup made with about half a bag of grounds, so. Maybe we'll try Caffe Nero which is supposed to be pretty close to Italian coffee. Ooh, or I could put a post on dreaming_spires and see if anyone can help :)

Thanks, though. I thought it might be a strength thing. The English are much more into tea, which I rarely drink in coffee shops, because they don't make it *properly* (ie with actually boiling water - 'hot' just doesn't cut it)

Have a great weekend at the farm! Can't wait to see all the costumes :D

[travels-in-time.livejournal.com]

(Note: not all coffee around here is decent either.)

McDonald's, for instance. *gags*

[in-the-bottle.livejournal.com]

When you live in the Italian district of a city famous for it's cafe culture, good coffee is pretty much expected everywhere. Though I can't tell you what good coffee is since I don't/can't drink coffee. But they can (http://www.melbournecoffeereview.com/). And this person here (http://www.mobility.unimelb.edu.au/blog/?p=157) tells you how being a Melbourne Coffee Snob living in Canada is like.

[potatocubed.livejournal.com]

I recommend Cafe Combibos, or whatever it's called. It's in a square next to Caffe Nero, near the bus station.

I also like the Jericho Cafe, which is in Jericho. The cake is super-tasty, the milkshakes are dreadful, the basement is eminently suited to lurkin' of the kind I prefer, and I haven't tried the coffee yet.

The best coffee in the UK is served in Caffe Vergnano, but that's on Charing Cross Road in London so probably doesn't help you much.

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

I love Combibos - I've finished 2 loyalty cards there, at least - but I don't know the Jericho cafe very well. thanks - I'll see how much time we've got!

[travels-in-time.livejournal.com]

The best coffee in the world is Community Coffee, made in Louisiana! You can even buy it online (http://www.communitycoffee.com/ccc/Catalog_CS.aspx)!

Unfortunately it will probably not arrive in time for fan_eunice to benefit. :(

I was always taught that "alright" is not a word at all, while "all right" works for both "everything correct" and "feeling good."

Maybe it's another one of those American/British divides? Which explains Elvis Presley's "That's All Right, Mama" but not Jo Dee Messina's "I'm Alright".

Pirates yay! \o? (See the hook?)

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

Ooh, the Community Coffee looks awesome. Will have to look at shipping...

I was taught that about 'alright' as well, but the alternative spelling has definitely acquired a distinctive meaning. I'm not going to worry about it too much, just look out for it.

*helpless giggling* that's so cool! I'm about halfway through (I hope) so should get it posted this evening :D

[thalia]

Being from Chicago, I'd love to help with your coffee question, except... I can't stand the stuff. Sorry. Give me a good cup of tea any day.

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

*g* I rarely drink tea when I'm out and about as I don't trust them to make it properly, and I'd rather drink bad coffee than bad tea.

I think that positively identifies me as British ;)

[blackmare-9.livejournal.com]

Coffee. Mmmm, coffeeeee.

The best, in my opinion, is strongly brewed but mild, not acidic like that crap you get at Starbucks. Starbucks is fine for espresso-based drinks with lots of milk and sugar and such, but I can't stand their plain coffee, which tastes acidic and "burnt" to me.

Instant coffee is ... I just don't even want to talk about it. Bleh.

I buy Eight O'Clock whole bean Colombian, which is good stuff and affordable.

Can't help with the fiction feedback since you've been writing lots of Torchwood, a show I've never seen, so I've not been reading. Sorry!

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

Thanks - that really helps on the coffee front. I'm not a fan of Starbucks myself, but I couldn't work out what an American would be *looking* for in a cup of coffee that they wouldn't find over here. 'Good' coffee tends to be quite bitter and strong here, which is the Italian influence, and if you're looking for something milder but still good-tasting, you're going to struggle.

Well, lately I've only really written SGA (also not one of yours, I think?), but I think the 'alright' creeps in there as well... I'm not dropping it, but it's something to think about :)

[hellenebright.livejournal.com]

According to Antonio Carluccio, Italy is the home of coffee, Italian coffee is the greatest, and American coffee is something you can mix paint with (refering to the Americano habit of adding hot water to espresso)

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

*snort* Considering I'm meeting her for the first time, that might not be the most diplomatic answer to the problem... ;)

I tend to start with 'hot, wet and caffeinated' and treat everything else as a bonus :D

[aoife-8.livejournal.com]

I have yet to find a decent cup of coffee in Oxford - although I do think that of the chains, Cafe Nero is the best. Non-alcoholic cocktails in Oxford, though - now that, I am an expert on!

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

apropos of nothing, if you recall a bit back I was very confused because your default icon seemed to have changed? It's doing it again! And this time I have screencap evidence! So just so you know I'm not crazy, this is what I'm seeing right now:

You can understand my confusion! (http://pics.livejournal.com/xparrot/pic/000299fk)

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

*blinks*

*flails*

What the hell!!!!!! that's just....

*flails some more*

I had problems with another icon yesterday - it should have been 'Jack in chains'. Instead, I got a blonde in a red top. Very strange.

It's doing it just to mess with our heads...

[miss-zedem.livejournal.com]

There's nothing wrong with 'alright'. You're using it in creative writing, not in a formal report or essay or anything, which makes it absolutely fine. Usage is everything, and that variance is becoming more and more common - like 'different to' rather than 'different from', it will eventually replace the standard. It drives me INSANE when people pick up on stuff like this, because yes, there is a time and a place for careful and formal use of language, but FICTION ISN'T IT. Are you communicating what you mean? Yes. Does everyone know what you mean, even if that particular form isn't correct in whichever variety of English they speak. YES, unless they're one of those awful English speakers who looks down on anyone who doesn't use their variety. And as you say, it is a useful distinction between 'fine' and 'all correct'.

Oh and if we're going to start applying ridiculous, old-fashioned English rules to everything, then there's lots of things you (and indeed everyone else) are doing 'wrong'. Oh, hey, wait a minute - English has changed since the mid-20th Century? No, surely not. I mean, clearly it's a language like Latin, the rules for which can be codeified in 19th century school books and never change. Because it's not like it's a living language or anything.

(Oh noes! I started that last sentence with a conjunction! I must go and make a sacrifice to the grammar gods lest I be struck down. Because everyone knows applying the rules of Latin and Greek to a Germanic language like English makes perfect sense...)

Of all the stupid, petty, pathetic comments *seethes*

This comment brought to you by a Linguist who has not yet had her morning coffee.

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

Whoa, down girl. *passes coffee* I'm really not that bothered by it. I'll probably carry on using it in dialogue, for the reasons you say, but I'm actually not that keen on it in general prose (it's a thing, like not liking the phrase 'lover') - I want to be sure I'm using it because I mean to use it, not because I'm being lazy. It's a 50/50 thing as far as I'm concerned, but mostly I'm very careful about my choice of words, and that matters to me.

Although while we're on the subject, the one that really gets me is 'OK', which I like to see written as 'okay', especially in dialogue because it's become a word - no one even really knows what it stands for any more! The "you use too much description" comment bothered me more because I'm not entirely sure what it means.

Usage vs 'correct' forms is always going to be contentious, but this one I'm quite easy about. If it fits, I'll use it, if it doesn't, I won't. *shrugs* I'll worry about it later. Right now, I've got pirates to...whatever you do to pirates. Herd? Corral?

Maybe catch you later?

[rustydog.livejournal.com]

I *like* how descriptive your writing is!

I've noticed "alright" of course (did a poll about it awhile back, before I started noticing it in your writing) and it's a bit of a pet peeve in general writing, but I understand the reasons for using it in fiction, especially dialogue, so I'm teaching myself not to mind. :) I'm making progress!

Coffee - this is way out of date, but when I was living over there in 1995 I never *saw* a single cup of coffee. This was before the explosion of Starbucks and gourmet coffee even in America. Since then, on British shows it seems like if I ever see coffee being made (except by Ianto) it's instant, and no American I know considers instant coffee "real" coffee. Coffee needs to be brewed, preferably fairly strong (though not strong like Turkish or Arabian coffee!) and served fresh. (Note: not all coffee around here is decent either.)

I like darker-roast beans and supposedly "robusta" aren't as good.

I don't know if that helps?

I hope you have a great weekend!

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

I've noticed myself using 'alright' more frequently lately, and while I won't stop using it in dialogue, I do want to cut back in narration unless it's essential for the narrator's voice. I want to write the way I write, but I don't want to tick people off on purpose, either ;)

Heh. I think they've just been going to the wrong places. Weirdly, when a friend of major_jim's was in America recently, he said all the coffee he'd been given was weak and 'flat' tasting. But then he likes a cup made with about half a bag of grounds, so. Maybe we'll try Caffe Nero which is supposed to be pretty close to Italian coffee. Ooh, or I could put a post on dreaming_spires and see if anyone can help :)

Thanks, though. I thought it might be a strength thing. The English are much more into tea, which I rarely drink in coffee shops, because they don't make it *properly* (ie with actually boiling water - 'hot' just doesn't cut it)

Have a great weekend at the farm! Can't wait to see all the costumes :D

[in-the-bottle.livejournal.com]

When you live in the Italian district of a city famous for it's cafe culture, good coffee is pretty much expected everywhere. Though I can't tell you what good coffee is since I don't/can't drink coffee. But they can (http://www.melbournecoffeereview.com/). And this person here (http://www.mobility.unimelb.edu.au/blog/?p=157) tells you how being a Melbourne Coffee Snob living in Canada is like.

[potatocubed.livejournal.com]

I recommend Cafe Combibos, or whatever it's called. It's in a square next to Caffe Nero, near the bus station.

I also like the Jericho Cafe, which is in Jericho. The cake is super-tasty, the milkshakes are dreadful, the basement is eminently suited to lurkin' of the kind I prefer, and I haven't tried the coffee yet.

The best coffee in the UK is served in Caffe Vergnano, but that's on Charing Cross Road in London so probably doesn't help you much.

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

I love Combibos - I've finished 2 loyalty cards there, at least - but I don't know the Jericho cafe very well. thanks - I'll see how much time we've got!

[travels-in-time.livejournal.com]

The best coffee in the world is Community Coffee, made in Louisiana! You can even buy it online (http://www.communitycoffee.com/ccc/Catalog_CS.aspx)!

Unfortunately it will probably not arrive in time for fan_eunice to benefit. :(

I was always taught that "alright" is not a word at all, while "all right" works for both "everything correct" and "feeling good."

Maybe it's another one of those American/British divides? Which explains Elvis Presley's "That's All Right, Mama" but not Jo Dee Messina's "I'm Alright".

Pirates yay! \o? (See the hook?)

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

Ooh, the Community Coffee looks awesome. Will have to look at shipping...

I was taught that about 'alright' as well, but the alternative spelling has definitely acquired a distinctive meaning. I'm not going to worry about it too much, just look out for it.

*helpless giggling* that's so cool! I'm about halfway through (I hope) so should get it posted this evening :D

[thalia]

Being from Chicago, I'd love to help with your coffee question, except... I can't stand the stuff. Sorry. Give me a good cup of tea any day.

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

*g* I rarely drink tea when I'm out and about as I don't trust them to make it properly, and I'd rather drink bad coffee than bad tea.

I think that positively identifies me as British ;)

[blackmare-9.livejournal.com]

Coffee. Mmmm, coffeeeee.

The best, in my opinion, is strongly brewed but mild, not acidic like that crap you get at Starbucks. Starbucks is fine for espresso-based drinks with lots of milk and sugar and such, but I can't stand their plain coffee, which tastes acidic and "burnt" to me.

Instant coffee is ... I just don't even want to talk about it. Bleh.

I buy Eight O'Clock whole bean Colombian, which is good stuff and affordable.

Can't help with the fiction feedback since you've been writing lots of Torchwood, a show I've never seen, so I've not been reading. Sorry!

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

Thanks - that really helps on the coffee front. I'm not a fan of Starbucks myself, but I couldn't work out what an American would be *looking* for in a cup of coffee that they wouldn't find over here. 'Good' coffee tends to be quite bitter and strong here, which is the Italian influence, and if you're looking for something milder but still good-tasting, you're going to struggle.

Well, lately I've only really written SGA (also not one of yours, I think?), but I think the 'alright' creeps in there as well... I'm not dropping it, but it's something to think about :)

[hellenebright.livejournal.com]

According to Antonio Carluccio, Italy is the home of coffee, Italian coffee is the greatest, and American coffee is something you can mix paint with (refering to the Americano habit of adding hot water to espresso)

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

*snort* Considering I'm meeting her for the first time, that might not be the most diplomatic answer to the problem... ;)

I tend to start with 'hot, wet and caffeinated' and treat everything else as a bonus :D

[aoife-8.livejournal.com]

I have yet to find a decent cup of coffee in Oxford - although I do think that of the chains, Cafe Nero is the best. Non-alcoholic cocktails in Oxford, though - now that, I am an expert on!