Deep and shallow thoughts

[jadesfire]

On the Today programme this morning, they interviewed the presenter of a programme that's going to be broadcast this evening The Human Button:

"Historian Prof Peter Hennessy speaks to the people who have operated Britain's nuclear deterrent over the years and today, including military commanders, politicians and former Vulcan bomber crew members. He visits Northwood, the headquarters from which the order to fire would come today, and Corsham, the secret nuclear bunker which, in the 1960s, would have been the location for an alternative government in the event of all-out war."

Hear the whole interview here.

He also talks to the frontline personnel who are 'the human button', something that immediately had me thinking of the Babylon 5 episode A Late Delivery From Avalon, which remains a firm favourite, and not just for Michael York in period costume. I love how Marcus is so willing to believe that he really is Arthur, and the wonderful double act that he makes with Dr. Franklin. But the idea of dealing with the small realities, the fall-out of this huge event and its impact on one person was the kind of thing B5 did so well. Yes, it was operatic in scale, often over-ambitious and sometimes heavy-handed, but the interest in 'the whole story' and in seeing things in shades of grey was what made me love the series in the first place. [/nostalgia]

Of course, being me, it also made me think of this:
[I could only find a subtitled version, sorry!]

"It's your job and you wanted it" remains a useful mantra...

and this:

Comments

[donutsweeper.livejournal.com]

OMG, B5, love that episode! "My knights of the round table were men such as you... well, maybe not exactly like you..." and G'kar's "and they made a very satisfying thump when you hit them"

what show are these clips from?

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

...What show? WHAT SHOW????? You don't...you've never... Wow, I thought this was one of our major exports. It certainly should be!

It's Yes, [Prime] Minister (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yes_Prime_Minister), which was a comedy/satire/genius series that ran during the 1980s. The writers had LOTS of information from insiders, so they were able to come up with disturbingly real scenarios.

Probably the best way of describing it is that Yes Minister/Yes, Prime Minister are 'Scrubs' to The West Wing's 'House', if you see what I mean ;)

I utterly adored the first 4 seasons of B5. Susan Ivanova remains a hero, but they were all such wonderful characters. They were allowed to be flawed and difficult and wrong, as well as heroic and right. I think I learned a lot about writing from watching B5.

[donutsweeper.livejournal.com]

I have heard of it, but I don't think I've seen it before. The clips are hysterical, I'll have to check it out.

B5 was wonderful, there was some issues with S5, but it still has one of my favorite scenes (when Garibaldi is being held hostage and Sheridan won't negotiate)

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

Ooh, yes, I'd forgotten that from S5. I didn't like Garabaldi in it generally, but there were some awesome moments. People go on and on about the writing in Buffy (which is awesome - not taking away from that) but the B5 writing on a good day was in a completely different league. To be able to do drama and humour and seriousness and silliness all in one series without it feeling forced, just felt so much more like *people* to me.

Do check out Yes Minister. It really is a seminal series, and according to Margaret Thatcher was "a closely observed portrayal of what goes on in the corridors of power", and I guess she should know! I think you'll love it :D

[donutsweeper.livejournal.com]

oh- no comparison between the two shows, especially for the 5 year story arc that B5 managed. That turned the scifi world on it's ear- the idea that people would be willing to watch and follow such a long story from beginning to end. And it rocked for how they had these super powerful moments but sneaked little jokes in (Vir and Londo arguing about opera for example)

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

I've been trying to find the Londo clip where he has the bug in his quarters, and finally manages to stab it with a short sword, then breaks down because 'you are not as big as I thought you were'. Not all the characters were great (Byron springs to mind) but most of them were just wonderful. I never watched with enough attention to really follow the political plot, but the characters were just *waves hands* They were captivating.

I never read many of the novels, but there's a Psi-corp trilogy about Bester that is awesome - they're by J.Gregory Keyes if you ever fancy a look ;) I must dig out my B5 icons...

[donutsweeper.livejournal.com]

Some of the characters were PAINFUL (the Capt in charge in S5 or the main characters that they got rid of after the pilot- the Doctor, Leta (the psicorp person who came back later) and the 2nd in command, the character played by Tamilyn Tomita) but overall. LOVED the show. And it was great that you could just watch an episode here and there and still understand enough of what was going on... some shows take the 5 year plan thing to such an extreme that if you miss one episode you are LOST

[rustydog.livejournal.com]

I haven't seen or heard much about "Yes, Prime Minister" either, which is surprising as my parents watched a lot of what PBS imported during the 80s - though maybe they were more loyal to the things that they had started watching in Scotland (early 80s). Hmm, I can't tell for sure but it looks like it may not have reached the US airwaves until 1998.

Anyway, looks like something I should check out!

I got through the middle of s2 of Babylon 5 before the new season of Torchwood started and disrupted my brain activity. I was enjoying it a lot though. It was surprisingly gritty, thoughtful, and coherent. Not that there weren't things to mock. :)

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

I think you'd love Yes Minister, although Major Jim wants me to mention that S1 isn't as good as later ones ;)

B5 occasionally drowned in its own worthiness, but I loved it because the people were allowed to be *people*, with lives and senses of humour and screw ups and everything. On its best days it was hard to beat.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

I am just popping in to wave my B5 flag - it's got its problems, and TV shows don't age especially well, especially scifi - but B5 to this day tops my list of favorite shows. It's not just an arc show, it's truly an epic, a complete story from start to finish - JMS had his issues with telling shorter stories (the movies were pretty painful) but I've yet to see another show that comes together like B5 does when it gets going.

I've never seen Yes Minister but now I'm thinking I ought to look it up!

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

Hee. I think the *ambition* of B5 was what always gave it its strength (I got out before the movies ;)). On a good day, it was pretty much the best sci-fi ever to go out on TV. Of course, on a bad day, it was the kind of thing to watch between your fingers, but the characters were always compelling and entertaining, and rarely 'one note' - everyone had secrets and complexities, and that wasn't a problem. *sigh* Love that show ;)

Definitely look up Yes Minister! It's easily one of the best British comedy shows ever and I actually prefer it to Blackadder :)

[crystalshard.livejournal.com]

Babylon 5 and Yes, Prime Minister. Two of my favourite shows. *happy sigh*

I adored Bernard and his dry sense of humour.

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

Bernard rocked. And one of the reasons I loved B5 was that it gave great roles to some British actors :D Aweseme, awesome series, both of them.

Maybe I shouldn't get rid of all my B5 videos after all...

[crystalshard.livejournal.com]

*whispers* I have them all on DVD . . .

I adored Ivanova.

[donutsweeper.livejournal.com]

OMG, B5, love that episode! "My knights of the round table were men such as you... well, maybe not exactly like you..." and G'kar's "and they made a very satisfying thump when you hit them"

what show are these clips from?

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

...What show? WHAT SHOW????? You don't...you've never... Wow, I thought this was one of our major exports. It certainly should be!

It's Yes, [Prime] Minister (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yes_Prime_Minister), which was a comedy/satire/genius series that ran during the 1980s. The writers had LOTS of information from insiders, so they were able to come up with disturbingly real scenarios.

Probably the best way of describing it is that Yes Minister/Yes, Prime Minister are 'Scrubs' to The West Wing's 'House', if you see what I mean ;)

I utterly adored the first 4 seasons of B5. Susan Ivanova remains a hero, but they were all such wonderful characters. They were allowed to be flawed and difficult and wrong, as well as heroic and right. I think I learned a lot about writing from watching B5.

[donutsweeper.livejournal.com]

I have heard of it, but I don't think I've seen it before. The clips are hysterical, I'll have to check it out.

B5 was wonderful, there was some issues with S5, but it still has one of my favorite scenes (when Garibaldi is being held hostage and Sheridan won't negotiate)

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

Ooh, yes, I'd forgotten that from S5. I didn't like Garabaldi in it generally, but there were some awesome moments. People go on and on about the writing in Buffy (which is awesome - not taking away from that) but the B5 writing on a good day was in a completely different league. To be able to do drama and humour and seriousness and silliness all in one series without it feeling forced, just felt so much more like *people* to me.

Do check out Yes Minister. It really is a seminal series, and according to Margaret Thatcher was "a closely observed portrayal of what goes on in the corridors of power", and I guess she should know! I think you'll love it :D

[donutsweeper.livejournal.com]

oh- no comparison between the two shows, especially for the 5 year story arc that B5 managed. That turned the scifi world on it's ear- the idea that people would be willing to watch and follow such a long story from beginning to end. And it rocked for how they had these super powerful moments but sneaked little jokes in (Vir and Londo arguing about opera for example)

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

I've been trying to find the Londo clip where he has the bug in his quarters, and finally manages to stab it with a short sword, then breaks down because 'you are not as big as I thought you were'. Not all the characters were great (Byron springs to mind) but most of them were just wonderful. I never watched with enough attention to really follow the political plot, but the characters were just *waves hands* They were captivating.

I never read many of the novels, but there's a Psi-corp trilogy about Bester that is awesome - they're by J.Gregory Keyes if you ever fancy a look ;) I must dig out my B5 icons...

[donutsweeper.livejournal.com]

Some of the characters were PAINFUL (the Capt in charge in S5 or the main characters that they got rid of after the pilot- the Doctor, Leta (the psicorp person who came back later) and the 2nd in command, the character played by Tamilyn Tomita) but overall. LOVED the show. And it was great that you could just watch an episode here and there and still understand enough of what was going on... some shows take the 5 year plan thing to such an extreme that if you miss one episode you are LOST

[rustydog.livejournal.com]

I haven't seen or heard much about "Yes, Prime Minister" either, which is surprising as my parents watched a lot of what PBS imported during the 80s - though maybe they were more loyal to the things that they had started watching in Scotland (early 80s). Hmm, I can't tell for sure but it looks like it may not have reached the US airwaves until 1998.

Anyway, looks like something I should check out!

I got through the middle of s2 of Babylon 5 before the new season of Torchwood started and disrupted my brain activity. I was enjoying it a lot though. It was surprisingly gritty, thoughtful, and coherent. Not that there weren't things to mock. :)

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

I think you'd love Yes Minister, although Major Jim wants me to mention that S1 isn't as good as later ones ;)

B5 occasionally drowned in its own worthiness, but I loved it because the people were allowed to be *people*, with lives and senses of humour and screw ups and everything. On its best days it was hard to beat.

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

I am just popping in to wave my B5 flag - it's got its problems, and TV shows don't age especially well, especially scifi - but B5 to this day tops my list of favorite shows. It's not just an arc show, it's truly an epic, a complete story from start to finish - JMS had his issues with telling shorter stories (the movies were pretty painful) but I've yet to see another show that comes together like B5 does when it gets going.

I've never seen Yes Minister but now I'm thinking I ought to look it up!

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

Hee. I think the *ambition* of B5 was what always gave it its strength (I got out before the movies ;)). On a good day, it was pretty much the best sci-fi ever to go out on TV. Of course, on a bad day, it was the kind of thing to watch between your fingers, but the characters were always compelling and entertaining, and rarely 'one note' - everyone had secrets and complexities, and that wasn't a problem. *sigh* Love that show ;)

Definitely look up Yes Minister! It's easily one of the best British comedy shows ever and I actually prefer it to Blackadder :)

[crystalshard.livejournal.com]

Babylon 5 and Yes, Prime Minister. Two of my favourite shows. *happy sigh*

I adored Bernard and his dry sense of humour.

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

Bernard rocked. And one of the reasons I loved B5 was that it gave great roles to some British actors :D Aweseme, awesome series, both of them.

Maybe I shouldn't get rid of all my B5 videos after all...

[crystalshard.livejournal.com]

*whispers* I have them all on DVD . . .

I adored Ivanova.