Episode reaction.

[jadesfire]

Hmmmm...on this one I seem to have brought too many critical faculties to the table. I may need to rewatch with my brain turned off. Also, there's probably a longer version of this with all the positive stuff in, but at 7.45 on a Sunday morning, this is as much as my brain wants to write. I shall go squee with people who enjoyed it more.

I absolutely and completely love Donna. She's just right for the Doctor, and I love how she challenges him, how angry she gets, how she doesn't just take no for an answer and that she matches him in the comedy perfectly. The whole scene in the volcano then the escape pod was wonderful.

Thinking about it, I actually liked big chunks of this episode, it was just that patches of the writing drove me mad. The comedy was deftly done ("Celtic, are you?" made me giggle every time), and the small emotional scenes were spot on, but I found the 'plot' scenes made me cringe. Although let's be honest, I went into this episode knowing it was going to make me cringe, because Roman set things always do.

Also, once I heard the characters' names, I stood no chance whatsoever of taking the episode seriously. Caecilius, Metella and Quintus? I cannot be the only person in the world who learnt Latin from The Cambridge Latin Course? Caecilius est in horto, for most of the episode in fact. So yeah, at that point I kind of lost my usual suspension of disbelief a little. And then when the Doctor tells them they'll be remembered, my other half unhelpfully added "yeah, in a school textbook" which undercut the scene a little.

It wasn't that I didn't enjoy it, more that I had to pick out the bits that I enjoyed from the bits that had me hiding behind a cushion. Mind you, there were also strong echoes of "The Mask of Mandragora" and "The Brain of Morbius", where the chanting made me cringe again. I also get irritated at silly little things, like Donna's dress. Not the neckline per se, although, seriously? But the designed, the visible machined seams and neat gold braid. It was a very pretty dress, but it takes the edge off the believability for me. Ditto Evalina's dress at the end. I can only get my inner Roman scholar to shut up for so long...

I think a rewatching without an overly cynical other half is probably in order. The special effects were awesome, and I loved the insight into how the Doctor perceives the universe. Donna's so good for him, and I'll definitely rewatch for that, but I think I might fast forward through the set-up scenes this time.

ETA: End of season hints? This is the second mention of the Shadow Proclamation, we've had 'she is returning' and Donna has something on her back (which intrigues me the most). And this is the second planet that's disappeared - that's what happened to the Adipose breeding planet in 'Partners in Crime'. Anyone suspecting Galactus yet? ;)

ETA 2: Please to not be saying things like 'volcano day' and then not referring to Jack - it's not like the Doctor didn't see him recently, and Martha and Rose get mentions. What about Jack? It doesn't even have to be a positive reference, just an acknowledgement of his existence!

Comments

[antarra.livejournal.com]

I enjoyed this a lot, but had trouble getting my inner archaeologist to shut up. Priestesses with this kind of make-up, I don't think so. And not everybody in Pompei died, not was Pompei the only city to be destroyed. And I am pretty sure the Romans knew about vulcanoes before Vesuvius exploded around their ears.

However, once I had managed to banish the archaeologist to the remote recesses of my brain I had a lot of fun with the episode. And Donna is so good for the doctor. She is fast becoming my favourite companion.

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

Donna is all kinds of awesome. I found that I could enjoy her bits without really enjoying the episode as a whole. But I can live with that :)

[avon-09.livejournal.com]

Please please please where does the volcano reference come from? It's driving me mad? He's done the volcano bit before....or is it a different programme? You've just alluded to it.

Oh and yes to all the review, especially Donna. She rocks!

[miss-zedem.livejournal.com]

I may have made this up, but didn't Jack say something the first time he met the Doctor about being in Pompeii for a self-cleaning con on volcano day?

[becky-h.livejournal.com]

Yep! He said 'gotta set your alarm clock for volcano day'.

[donutsweeper.livejournal.com]

the the Doctor parrots it back to him after Jack says he (and his space junk) had nothing to do with what happening there.. the Doctor says "I'll tell you what's happening. You forgot to set your alarm clock. It's volcano day."

[becky-h.livejournal.com]

Yep!

[miss-zedem.livejournal.com]

I THOUGHT THAT ABOUT THE NAMES!!!! Bwahahahahaha :D I was sitting there going 'these names sound familiar', then it hit me as soon as they said Quintus.

I can ignore the shaky plot, cos I loved the characterisation so much. And I have low expectations for historical accuracy - I learnt my Roman history from Up Pompeii and Monty Python (who in fairness were probably reasonably accurate ;)). So I can deal with that too.

The stuff about the Celts made me happy, especially when one of the characters went 'oh there's lovely' *pets BBC Wales*

The foreshadowing is intriguing, although I have no idea what or who Galactus is *fails at being a fangirl* It also took me a few minutes to work out what you were on about with Jack - he said something when he first met Nine about a self-cleaning con in Pompeii, didn't he? Or is my drug-addled brain imagining that?

[fl-zed.livejournal.com]

Galactus, eater of planets (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galactus)
Though it might just as well be Stanley getting a bit too trigger-happy with the Lexx (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexx#The_Lexx).

[fl-zed.livejournal.com]

"'these names sound familiar', then it hit me as soon as they said Quintus."
The other names sounded generic to me. Quintus sounded ridiculously familiar, and I had no idea why. Still don't know, as I never ever have studied any latin. Id est and exempli gratia is the only vocabulary I can think of that I know.

[minervasolo.livejournal.com]

Quintus is the name of so many Romans; usually used to refer to a fifth child, or the fifth person with that name (like Sextus or Septimus). Horace was a Quintus; that might be why it's familiar.

[fl-zed.livejournal.com]

Ah, interesting.

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

Hee. I picked up the 'there's lovely' as well, and it was a fantastic idea, very clever. Something didn't quite click with it for me - whenever it was the Doctor and Donna, I was right there, loving it. Whenever it was anyone else, I was kind of cringing *shrugs* Not the end of the world, and I'm looking forward to the next one still!

[miss-zedem.livejournal.com]

Just sometimes it's difficult to switch your brain off enough - that's how I was with Owen and the kiss of life. It was just too much disbelief for me to be able to suspend ;)

The whole idea of speaking Latin and them hearing it as Celtic was just marvellous. Someone on the writing staff is a linguist, and had way too much fun with that.

[dyddgu.livejournal.com]

I was rather glad, for once, that I have no Latin or Classics! I was waiting for your post on it ;-) I didn't know about the Cambridge Latin Course - I think that's quite amusing, me. (I do know about Flavia cantat, though, I would have got that.)
I loved it, but that may be because I don't know about all the stuff you picked up on.

[sepia-words.livejournal.com]

Flavia cantat quod laeta est. *g*. I remember those books so well...

[dyddgu.livejournal.com]

...though the only reason I know about it is Molesworth!
One day I will read it - my bf bought it for me the other year for a laugh!

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

*nods* major_jim was also roundly mocking it most of the way through, which didn't help. I'll just have to watch it again without him :)

[dune-drd.livejournal.com]

And then when the Doctor tells them they'll be remembered, my other half unhelpfully added "yeah, in a school textbook" which undercut the scene a little.

Heee. Never had Latin, but never ask a German of my generation about "Peter, Paul and Mary are sitting in the kitchen" *sniggers*

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

*g* Sounds like the same kind of thing. Having spent 4 years with the damn family, and having taught it to various people, it's not the kind of thing I could just blink and miss...

[dune-drd.livejournal.com]

RTD admits it in the confidential. That and the Asterix allusions. Sometimes I still love that man ^^

[becky-h.livejournal.com]

This reminds me of my mother watching medical dramas. *Hugs you tight*

I. I'm still high on squee. I'll come down and be critical eventually, I'm sure.

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

Don't come down! I would loved to have enjoyed uncritically, and I thought the Doctor and Donna's scenes were just wonderful. I...just may need to watch them without the rest of the episode, I think. *shrugs* Not the end of the world, and I'm not put off in any way. But as you say, when you know about a subject, it's hard to just ignore stuff. The bit that did make me happy was that they'd done at least some research to know that it was a pyroclastic eruption, rather than a normal one, which destroyed Pompeii, and they'd clearly done lots of research. It just also felt like they'd ignored a lot of it...

Mind you, I'm going to think "that's Celtic" every time I see a Latin phrase from now on. Genius :)

And I need a Donna icon :)

[miss-zedem.livejournal.com]

*loves on your icon*

[sepia-words.livejournal.com]

Donna is getting more fantastic by the episode. I'm encouraged by the promise that she won't fall in love with the Doctor and get all mopey and sad, but will just stay awesome. With her many hats.

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

*grin* Here's hoping for Planet of the Hats!

I think if it hadn't been for Donna, this episode would have been unbearable for me. Let's hope she goes on this way :)

[minervasolo.livejournal.com]

The Cambridge Latin Scholar in me can't help but squee over Caecilius and co. A little sad at some of the variations, but I guess that's copyright. Of course, Caecilius really did exist (http://www.vroma.org/images/mcmanus_images/paula_chabot/clc/pcclc.07.jpg), and really was found in Pompeii. Or, at least, a house belonged to someone called Caecilius (http://www.cambridgescp.com/page.php?p=clc^oa_book1^stage1). So he's remembered, at least.

(The CSCP website links to Dr Who on iPlayer! Hee)

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

I was torn between squeeing and going 'what the...'. And I'd forgotten that Caecilius was real, which actually helps a little. Maybe if I'd remembered that, I wouldn't have winced so much :)

[minervasolo.livejournal.com]

Quintus and Metella, I'm pretty certain, were invented. Also, The CSCP had led me to believe Caecilius was found curled in a ball with a dog over him; I'd forgotten that was just a random corpse they'd decided to pair up with him. I was very confused by everyone's presence in Rome.

...

[joanna-may.livejournal.com]

Not a regular reader of this blog, found it on google.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who twitched horribly at their names. Not only that, at one point they made up a surname for him, despite them having a perfectly Latiny one in the books. And he was a banker, not a marble thingy.

Don't worry, you're not the only one who was annoyed by her dress. Especially when the Doctor referred to it as a 'toga'. Ouch. Lord of Time and Space and doesn't realise the only females to wear togas were prostitutes? Damn.

I agree though, Donna is lovely. Can I friend you for your future episode reviews?

Re: ...

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

Google, eh? Fame at last ;)

The names could have gone either way, and for me, they just made me cringe. Although I'd forgotten that they were real people, which does help a bit, and I don't mind the marble thing - everyone has to bend things a bit for the sake of the plot.

The clothes thing always annoys me in historical dramas - they go to such trouble over everything else, then seem to forget it in favour of teh pretty. *sigh* And the toga thing had me yelling at the screen.

Mind you, it doesn't take much... :)

Nice to meet you! Come in, sit down, have a cup of coffee, there's biscuits somewhere, don't mind the madness...