Doctor Who 4xdamnIlostcountagain

[jadesfire]

I promised to build a pillow-fort to protect people from the fallout from this episode, so here it is. You may bring in:

- The cuddly toy of your choice.
- The Doctor of your choice. (I've bagsied Five, but I'm willing to share)
- The companion of your choice. (Donna!)
- As many pillows as you can carry.



Actually, it wasn't as bad as all that. This may have been because of the level my expectations were set at. Which was somewhere below 'Random Shoes' and slightly above 'Love and Monsters'. Since I haven't actually seen either of these episodes all the way through, you get the idea.

There were things I liked. The explanation for Jenny was actually reasonable, and I liked the Doctor's reaction to her. But that, at least in part, was the fundamental problem with the episode for me.

The writer seemed to have no idea what kind of show he was writing. It veered from kooky comedy to philosophising about the meaning of life to extreme Doctor-angst. While in the hands of someone who knows what they're doing, that can work, in this case, it didn't come off, in any way. There were some great individual scenes. The Doctor telling Jenny about Galllifrey or telling Donna about his family. That worked, and showcased some of what's best about DT's portrayal of the Doctor. But it sat oddly in an episode that had too much plot and not enough sense. It was a classic case of 'things happening one after another', with some attempts at character moments, most of which fell flat.

To my surprise, I quite liked Jenny, the fact of her as well as the character herself. Yes, she was annoying in places, but she was also more than that. She lost me when she got all 'yay, I'm the Doctor's daughter and we're going to live happily ever after', mostly because it hamstrung what could have been an interesting performance. Her assertion to Donna that she was a 'real person', her challenging the Doctor about being a soldier, were great. Her 'yay, I didn't kill him like you taught me' took her back to the child she denied being at the beginning.

And what a waste of great plot devices. I love the idea of a 7 day war that no one realises is that short. I love the idea of the reproduction machines. I'm a sucker for the old 'implaccable enemies' storyline. So how did it go so wrong?

Well, I hate to say it, but Martha didn't help. If they'd cut her subplot, there would have been more room for the other characters to breathe. She literally added nothing to the overall plot, and although Freema did her best with what she was given, it was such a waste. I could go on and about what was wrong with it, but I burnt my arm earlier on and it's rubbing on the side of the laptop, and I get the feeling that if I start, I won't be able to stop and I can't take the pain. I will just say that both my husband and I were yelling 'he's a fish! he's a fish!' as the Hath diseappeared under the water. It's nice to bond over these things.

The terraforming device was a another waste of a special effect. Very pretty and nicely done (although, B5 guys, was anyone else tempted to shout 'Vorlon'? No? Ah well) and alright, the shooting was signposted from the minute the Doctor said Jenny could come with them, but that's fine, I can take the cliche. I can also take the nice echo of 'Last of the Time Lords', using the mirror image blocking, and the same camera angles. That was nice. Then the writer had to over-egg his pudding by having the Doctor make his 'base this civilisation' speech, which was just so un-Doctor-like. He doesn't go around telling people what to do, not like that. He tells them to look inside themselves, etc etc. major_jim's first reaction was "idea's good. writing sucks". I think I tend to agree.

This is the second time this year (the first being the Torchwood episode "From out of the rain") I want to sit down and rewrite the whole damn thing. To even out the tone, and sort out some of the clunkier dialogue. To give Jenny a whole personality instead of just a cheeky grin and perfectly applied eyeliner (damn, I want that machine). To use the plot devices properly, and show that just because it's a cliche doesn't mean it has to feel like a cliche.

Donna was awesome as ever, although I don't think it's the first time she's told the Doctor he's wrong (*cough*Pompei*cough*). Maybe the writer didn't get that script. I loved her figuring out the dates, and the continuity of her background - good with things written down. I loved her gentleness and toughness with the Doctor. It's just what he needs.

Two last things:

- The running joke is wearing thin. They're not together. We get it.
- This series is starting to feel like "Mai theme, let me show u it". They've managed themes before without beating us over the head with them. It feels like someone's been hitting them with the obvious stick. Please stop.

In other news, Fic!. Jack meets Lawrence of Arabia. No, really.

Comments

[apiphile.livejournal.com]

THe boyfriend and I had exactly the same conclusion: good idea, bad writing.

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

That seems to so often be the pattern in DW/TW. I looked up the writer - he also wrote 'The Lazarus Experiment' which had similar issues. I think he needs a better editor...

[apiphile.livejournal.com]

I think to be honest *most* Dr Who writers really need a basic grounding in simple physics (hello, setting the sky on fire would BURN THE OXYGEN AS WELL. Oxygen combusts! I *FAILED* GCSE science and I know that!) and logic and how to not overlook The Way Things Work in order to use really stupid special effects. Because a lot of the time it comes across like my old AmDram group - "we have budgetted for two pyrotechnics, so by GOD we're going to use both even though there is no reason for the second one".

Er.

[donutsweeper.livejournal.com]

*sigh* I haven't seen this, and probably won't till it airs here (in 3 weeks) but comparisons to "love and Monsters" and "Random Shoes" are not good.

I did track down the preview and shuddered at what I saw.

Is it just me or has most of S4 of DW needed a beta?

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

*g* That's where my expectations were. I'd put the actual episode somewhere around the level of 'Meat'. Not horrendous (except when it was) but horrendously uneven.

It's better than the preview, I swear :)

They really, really need a beta. So badly.

[donutsweeper.livejournal.com]

You (or unfeathered or _medley_) would never have let me get away with some of the things that have made it to air. *sigh*

Better than the preview is good though, because I expressed my disgust at that so loudly I woke my cat and cause him to flee from the room

[szm.livejournal.com]

Martha got captured again! At least she didn't get tied to a table I suppose...

I actually liked Jenny, she was sweet and could keep up with the Doctor! And I liked tht of all the things Donna told her about traveling she like the running best. *g*

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

hee. Poor Martha. She does get to be the 'one in peril' rather a lot, doesn't she?

I think one of the things that disappointed me was what they did to Jenny. The first half of what we saw from her was awesome. An attempt at complex, real characterisation. Then she seemed to go all preppy again, which spoiled it fo rme.

[beccaelizabeth]

unfortunately I agree with all this.

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

it's a shame, isn't it? If we can see the problems in the writing, why can't they?

[dark-aegis.livejournal.com]

I'm completely with you there. I actually rather liked Jenny. Only thing is, the episode itself fell rather flat. Martha's subplot really added nothing (bonding with the fish-guy, then losing fish-guy to a big puddle of water - erm, fish, hello? I kept expecting him to pop up while Martha was crying. It made no sense to me). It was a brilliant idea - I loved the seven-day-war idea and the creation machines, etc. I even didn't mind Jenny (though, as you said, she did get a bit annoying though not much). And Donna was as brilliant as ever.

I wanted more out of Jenny, though. It just really felt as if they were doing a whole "my plot, I show you it" thing rather than hey "my characters with a bit of plot mixed in, I show you it". This could've been a brilliant examination of Doctor-angst and his whole 'I was a dad once' thing and it wasn't, not really. Too much, too fast, this. I think it could've been better if they made this a two-parter.

Overall, though, not my favourite of this series by any means. But not horrible/terrible/Random Shoes/Love & Monsters-ish. I'm also getting a bit tired of the god-hood theme. That and the Donna/Doctor "we're not a couple, damnit" joke.

I actually rather miss the more subtle nature of the 'Bad Wolf' theme from S1. It just seems like they want to do this whole smack the audience with the "this is my theme, geddit?" stick.

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

It was a whole lot of good stuff that never quite added up to a whole.

I was thinking about it, and wondered if the vast majority of the audience would spot the theme - we're kind of a dedicated bunch, and we look for these things. I get the feelig that most people don't. *shrugs* maybe I'm underestimating people but I wonder if we're being a bit harsh.

I felt just the same about it being a two-parter. Then maybe Martha would have had something to do...

[fairyd123.livejournal.com]

I'm beginning to think Freema is my personal show killer - she shows up and the show I'd previously been loving goes rapidly down hill. I'm bewildered why they keep bringing her in when doing so messes up a barely created and still fragile dynamic - they did it with Torchwood and now they're doing it with Who when they should have been focusing on building the Doctor/Donna partnership.

It wasn't a bad episode and I thought Georgia Moffat gave a very likeable performance but it didn't move me at all. Back to normal next week please.

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

They don't seem to have a clue what to do with her, do they? In some ways, her story reached its peak in 'Last of the Time Lords', and they can't decide where they're taking her next. Without room to grow, she's stuck looking perky and grinning. Which is a shame for all concerned, including her.

Georgie Moffat was much, much better than I'd expected, which was a nice surprise, but yes, as you say, back to normal now, please.

[crystalshard.livejournal.com]

Wow. It seems we had utterly different reactions. You, who are the Goddess of Characterisation, didn't like the plot. Me, who can handle plot, was enjoying the characterisation. I liked Jenny a lot, and Donna was awesome. Martha was awesome in a limited fashion, although the whole sinkhole thing just fell flat for me. I too was yelling "He's a fish! . . . well, maybe they can't breathe under mud." The characterisation, of the girls at least, kinda helped me glide over everything else.

Also, yes. The Vorlon Effect. Oh, and why didn't the TARDIS translate the Hath's bubbly noises? And why, why do aliens have such human body language? Great idea, poor execution.

And the 'could you beat us over the head with the theme any more' thing. Yes, we GET that it's about children and reproducing and rebuilding species. We GET that it's about creating new worlds. We get the idea that you've thrown in all the technology necessary to rebuild Gallifrey and the Gallifreyans and maybe even a few Time Lords. Sheesh.

(Edit: By the way, the 'idiots' icon is about the writer(s).)

[crystalshard.livejournal.com]

Oh, and was it just me, or did anyone else think that the writer was listening to A Piece of Sky (http://www.seeklyrics.com/lyrics/Barbra-Streisand/A-Piece-Of-Sky.html) when he wrote this episode?

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

Hee. The uneveness of the characterisation meant that I noticed the plot more. I couldn't have cared less in most of the previous episodes, but I didn't feel this did justice to any of them.

So. Many. Plot holes.

On the theme front, I wonder if we're just picking it up because we look for these things. Would the average viewer who just watches, doesn't participate in 'fandom', be interested in seeing that? If I switch off my fan-brain and just go along for the ride, it feels less obvious somehow. Not sure...

[crystalshard.livejournal.com]

I don't know . . . you don't have to be involved in fandom to pick up the themes. My dad, who I always discuss the episode with after it's broadcast, feels like he's being hit over the head with themes too. And as far as I know he has no involvement in fandom whatsoever. But unlike fandom he, and by extension I, are not panicking about "what's going to happen to our characters?" We're just looking forward to finding out what happens next.

But yes. *drives bus through plot holes*

[dune-drd.livejournal.com]

One thing to say (except 'yes, true'), and that's about the Hath dying in mud. I'll just quote a guy who has to know:


Dominar Rygel XVI: No I'm not okay. We're in mud.
Aeryn Sun: You're Hynerian. You're aquatic, what's your problem?
Dominar Rygel XVI: Aquatic? That's water, not mud. Mud is... mud. You can't breathe in it, you can't move in it. It holds you, it grabs you, it sucks you down. You want to know about mud? I know about mud.
John Crichton: Guy knows mud.

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

Hee. Fair point. But still. It looked like dirty water to me ;)

[travels-in-time.livejournal.com]

The writer seemed to have no idea what kind of show he was writing.

I felt something of the sort coming on when I saw that the writer's name was "Greenhorn". Bit of a tip-off there, huh?

I will just say that both my husband and I were yelling 'he's a fish! he's a fish!' as the Hath diseappeared under the water.

Yes. We were doing the same thing!

I came in with very low expectations also, and enjoyed it more than I expected, so that's good, I guess.

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

He also wrote "The Lazarus Experiment" which I seem to remember was similarly patchy.

Not expecting anything is good. Although I am quite looking forward to next week's :)