I want to be able to read fic without crying

[jadesfire]

I may well regret making this private rant public, but I've tidied up the typing (although at least one typo will remain, I guarantee it), but it's this or cataloguing. Plus ranting is good for the spleen. Or something.



This isn't very me. Or, at least, it's the me I don't usually let out in public. But the volume of fic is going up, and I've just started reading seriously again. And I'm already getting cross.

I'm adding a caveat or disclaimer or explanation or 'Jades is a chicken, albeit an angry one' (*squawk*) to this, just to say that this is not aimed at any particular author(s). Much of the below works in the right context, but context is everything. Cliches in the hands of good writers can be remarkable and unique. But too often, something gets written in a good story, someone else picks it up, then someone else does and, well. I don't mind when things start to snowball. Avalanches are more of a problem.

None of these things are enough to make me stop reading a story, but they do make me wish that people would use the shows as their sources, rather than what other people have written. I should also add that I'm sure at least one, maybe two or (probably) all of these have come up in my own writing. I promise to cringe when I find them again.

I've used SGA and Torchwood for most of my examples, since that's most of what I'm reading right now, but I'm sure people can add to the list from other fandoms…


#1. Please, if you are writing about a TV show, watch said TV show. Please form your descriptions of the characters from what you see on the shiny screen in front of you, not from what you've read in several dozen fanfics. Current pet peeves are:

Torchwood: Thin Ianto. *squints* Not so much. I mean, he's not going to break any scales, but he's not that little either. His shoulders are pretty broad, and, alright, under the suit it's kind of hard to tell more than that, but he's kind of...man shaped. I'll grant you that it's possible that he has a "swimmer's build" (which I take to mean broad shouldered and slim waisted) but he's not thin.

SGA: Sheppard's face moves. Seriously. It moves lots and lots and lots. Try this picspam if you don't believe me. Yes, he can do impassive, but he doesn't do it most of the time. His eyebrows have almost as much life in them as his hair.

Torchwood: Ianto's height. More or less the same as Jack's.

SGA [shamelessly gakked from nightdog_barks]: Rodney's creamy skin. Say what? Pale, possibly. Creamy? Seriously? Maybe he has secret longings to be Cleopatra and bathes in milk as well, although how he ships it in is anyone's guess… (okay, I'm going to stop there because I feel crack!fic coming and need to lie down until it goes away)

Torchwood: Jack's broad shoulders. Now, I'm not one to criticise appreciation of JB's appearance. Not at all. But this goes hand in hand (so to speak) with stick-thin Ianto. The two of them are pretty well matched, but Jack wears a big coat and boots, which makes him look bigger. And yes, the coat's distracting, but still…

Also, when was the last time you noticed, really noticed the colour of someone's eyes? I don't have any problem with this in the right context, but in general, you have to be looking pretty closely. In the House fandom, there's good excuses for mentioning eye colour, given how often the directors highlight it, but most of the time in most fandoms, give your characters a good excuse for noticing the colour. Make something of it. Don't just throw it in because everyone else does.



#2. Once you have watched the characters, please try listening to them. Dialect, use of language, even choice of words all tell you something about the characters. This is helpful when you come to write them.

Torchwood: Jack has an American accent, but we know he's not American. Gwen and Ianto have Welsh accents, Tosh has pretty much an RP accent, while Owen has a London accent. Most of the time, there's not need to indicate this in the text, since we know what they sound like. The dialect might be different, but you don't need to drop 'h's or 't's off everything. Now and again to give flavour, perhaps, but please be careful. We need to be able to read it as well.

I should probably add that my first ever fandom was Gambit (oh, and the rest of the X-men as well), so I know what I'm talking about when it comes to reading accents that are written so strongly they become unintelligible. Torchwood's not that bad, but I do get frustrated with constant mention of Ianto's 'beautiful Welsh vowels'. One reference, people. One! We already know he's Welsh. Please find something else to say about his voice.

Out of interest, SGA people, how do you feel about seeing 'ZPM' written as 'ZedPM' for Rodney? I read the right one automatically for the person speaking, but there's a case for writing it out. I just know that it makes me blink, which can interrupt the flow.



#3. In and out of characterness is a trickier one, but I generally think that if you can back it up from canon, you're fine. I might disagree with you, but that's okay, as long as you're doing it from a sensible starting place.

Please stop making Jack and Ianto cry. Yes, I know we've seen them both crying in extreme situations, but for goodness sake stop it! Speaking as someone who has been known to burst into tears during adverts (and no, not just for the horror that is the Cilip Bang ad), even I don't cry as much as these two seem to in fic. If you're going to make them cry, give them a good reason.

People are really, really rubbish at talking about what they're feeling. Unless they've had really good therapy, but even then, if they're talking to someone who hasn't, they're going to mess it up. There's going to be lots of pauses, lots of significant looks and - if they're genuinely trying to talk about their feelings - lots of hand waving and 'you know?' If both the characters are men, this is probably going to be doubled.

If one of these men is John Sheppard, who looks like he's going to have a panic attack when someone hugs him, triple the number you first thought of. And add a couple of thousand. If one of these men is Ianto Jones, he's going to make sarcastic comments and look awkward. If one of them is Rodney McKay, he's going to keep talking until you shut him up out of pity. If one of them is Jack Harkness, you're going to think he's given you an answer until you walk away and realise he hasn't, not really. If one of these men is Gregory House…actually, even I can't imagine that one, so I'll stop there.


#4. Epithets. The OED defines this as: "An adjective indicating some quality or attribute which the speaker or writer regards as characteristic of the person or thing described." I vividly remember reading the novelisation of 'The Empire Strikes Back' at the age of thirteen, and wanting to throw it across the room because they kept describing Luke as 'the young commander'. Every. Other. Sentence. So this is a long standing personal gripe more than anything else, but hey, my journal, my rant.

Now, I know this is a personal dislike, and that it doesn't bother others so much, but please think when you're using epithets. Who's the point of view character? How are they going to think about the person they're talking to/watching? Are the Torchwood team really going to think of Jack as 'the Captain'? Does Sheppard think of Rodney as 'the astrophysicist'? Would Wilson think of House as 'the diagnostician'? (that one baffles me, I have to say…)

I'm aware that this is the one that people are going to disagree on, and I want to emphasise that in the right context, they work fine. But too often they're used because the writer thinks they need to introduce variety for the sake of variety. Descriptions like 'the other man' (and the phrase 'he said', while we're on this subject) don't really get 'read' by readers. They're registered as denoting the non-POV character (or speech) and kind of skipped over. Again, they can get awkward, but choice of words matters and is worth thinking about.


Actually, maybe that's what I'm trying to say: writers, please engage your brain before you open a Word document. Everyone will thank you in the long run.

Comments

[kimberlyfdr.livejournal.com]

how do you feel about seeing 'ZPM' written as 'ZedPM' for Rodney?

I was speaking with another fan about that, too. For me, if it's not written as ZedPM for Rodney, it doesn't feel right. And when I write myself, I always do ZedPM for Rodney.

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

Interesting. I wonder if this is a US/UK+Canada divide. I very much hear things when I read, so I think I supply the right pronounciation automatically. Most intriguing.

[fl-zed.livejournal.com]

"I may well regret making this private rant public"

I don't see why you would. Good post. *mems*

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

*grin* thanks. I was a bit worried people would think I was having a go at them, which I'm not. but generalisations are always...tricky...

[smtfhw.livejournal.com]

There's an awful lot of truth in this...

Please stop making Jack and Ianto cry. Yes, I know we've seen them both crying in extreme situations, but for goodness sake stop it!

Can I just say "Amen to that!"...

I've long believed that the world is full of people who think they can write, and experience tells me, they're wrong.

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

Hee. I'd seen lots of my friends complaining about Ianot and Jack sobbing their way through fic, but it wasn't until I started reading fic seriously again that I realised it's everywhere. And frustrating...

Can I second the amen?

[(Anonymous)]

Christ on a Harley -- Cyberwoman launched the thousand fics of emo. It was an extreme circumstance, people! People who go around beating the crap out of alien menaces don't go around weeping at the drop of a hankie!

Another pet peeve? The constant referring to Ianto as "the younger man" and Jack as "the older man" while they are in bed. We know, folk, we know, really and truly, we know about the age difference. Knock it the heck out!

[smithy161.livejournal.com]

I'm with you on Ianto not being thin, but JB always looks quite bulky to me, in the shoulder-region, even without the coat. When he's got that white t-shirt in Bad Wolf, he still looks quite broad.

I also hate random eye-colour insertion. Biggest fic cliché ever, especially adding another adjective, like 'hazel brown' or 'azure blue'. *Shudders*

Shep's face is brilliant. It says so much that he doesn't voice.

As for accents, I can't stand written representations of accents, especially Scottish ones (the amount of McKay/Beckett fic I've run away from because of this in probably close to triple-figures). If we've watched the show, we know what they sound like.

The ZPM thing... I always read it as 'zed' anyway, for appropriate characters. I've got the voices in my head (that sounds wrong), and they speak the lines as they would. I don't need telling that it should be 'zed' (I want to correct the Americans on screen all the time!)

Love your last paragraph on talking about feelings, especially Jack. Oh, and Rodney! That's exactly it.

Epithets are the BIGGEST fic peeve for me. They make me cringe and, in extreme cases, I will stop reading and hide. It's worst in House-fic. House would not think of Wilson as 'the oncologist'. He might think 'that annoying git who's following me around', but there's nothing wrong with saying 'Wilson' three times in a paragraph.
I read something ages ago that stuck with me; 'he said' or 'she said' can be used in every single line, and nobody will mind in the slightest. No reader will think 'that's repetitive' because all they're interested in is the dialogue. 'He said' helps break up the flow and clarify who's speaking without distracting from what's actually being said. Oh, and most readers are perfectly capable of working out when someone is grumbling or muttering or raising their voice without being told explicitly.

Wow, long comment. But all these are things people need to be reminded of, so yay for sharing it.

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

I think more examination of photographic evidence is required to settle the Jack's shoulders question. Because I'm all about the research ;)

I'm getting seriously wound up with fics that say Sheppard doesn't express what he's feeling, because if his face goes all impassive and blank that tells you what he's feeling. In some ways, he's worse than Rodney because it's all there in his eyes, whereas Rodney is easily distracted. It's something that's struck me even more on rewatching.

I'm SO glad I'm not the only one who finds epithets annoying. The invisibility of certain words and phrases isn't something most people think about, but it makes such a difference to the writing. Terry Pratchett is the best example of this - I only notice it because I listen to the audio books, but he mostly uses 'x said', which makes his use of other speech tags stand out. I tend to use it as a natural break in the speech, where someone would pause or take a breath anyway - sticking in a 'he said' improves the flow and keeps the rhythm, and it's the kind of thing that you worry about at first, then becomes instinct.

Long comments are good! It's very reassuring to know I'm not the only one thinking this :)

[deelaundry.livejournal.com]

Did you see Ticcy's post on a story in which House prayed because someone was in a coma? Hee hee.

And on epithets, there was a House/Wilson fic which described Wilson as "the smaller man." ?? Not very flattering.

The one that peeves me the most is referring to Wilson as "the young man" or "the young oncologist." They haven't verified his age, but it's at least mid-thirties. A person in his or her eighties or older might see Wilson as a young man but that's it.

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

Oh good grief...things like that really make you want to go hit your head against something, don't they?

I could just about go with 'the younger man', but even that's a stretch, because apart from in very specific circumstances, we don't think about the ages of the people we're talking to. *sigh* Sometimes I think it's just a case of not fully engaging the brain, or not thinking that the people in TV shows should be portrayed as people, not puppets.

[smithy161.livejournal.com]

House Praying says "hello, I haven't watched the source material!"

[pwcorgigirl.livejournal.com]

Excellent post! You know, it would be great fun to write a crack!fic in which everyone refers to everyone else by epithets turned into honorifics: "Oncologist Wilson, come here. I need you!" (I may think better of this idea when I've had more coffee, but crack!fic is wonderfully cathartic.)

I do think people go overboard with epithets because writing a story with two characters of the same gender in the same scenes leads to some tricky situations in explaining who is doing what. This is something I run across constantly while beta-ing stories. Less experienced writers are aware that it clutters things up to constantly refer characters by their names and that just using "he" or "she" gets confusing, so they fall back on epithets. It's easier than learning how get the proper balance of pronouns to names in a passage.

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

*giggle* Crack!fic is definitely good for getting these things out of your system. I'd read it if you wrote it :)

I know what you mean about the 'two men in the frame' problem - it's tricky, and it needs thought and work. Some things I read make me wonder what the writers have read - can't they tell the difference between what they're putting down and what they've read in published fiction? I mean, I can see the gulf with my work, and I'm always trying to close it, but sometimes I wonder if people are even aware of it.

[fan-eunice.livejournal.com]

OMG yes to all of this, and then yes again. Particularly thank you for this,

Please stop making Jack and Ianto cry.

YES, PLEASE. Now, I love me some weepy Ianto, but when he cries on the show? It means he's broken. If he's just upset he buttons down even harder represses into tea making and, I suspect, cathartic alphabetizing and such. Did everyone miss the whole rat-guts eating scene? Where the whole point is that most of the time you can't tell just by looking at him that he's being emo boy? Argh.
I think my favorite part of when he cries in Jack's jacket when he thinks he's dead? Is that his first impulse isn't histrionics, it's to tidy the desk. You know how broken he is because it doesn't work.

And if I am telling people to make Ianto cry less? You just know it's bad.

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

*snort* Yup, it's bad alright. :)

Weepy Ianto is bad enough - as you say, the man locks down, he doesn't leak. But I found one with weepy Jack the other day, that just had me staring at the screen in disbelief. I just...there are definitely, absolutely circumstances under which Jack would and does cry. But then he grabs a tissue and looks for someone to shoot. Collapsing into Ianto's arms? I'm sorry, but we are not watching the same programme...

[miss-zedem.livejournal.com]

*pets you carefully* Shh, there there, it's alright *makes soothing noises*

;D

I agree, by the way. With all of it. If Ianto and Jack are in bed together, I think they're a little past calling each other by job titles (unless you're writing a completely different kind of fic...).

And ZedPM drives me insane. It's like they think Rodney made that pronunciation up...

Another thing that drives me mad? The pervasive idea that everyone in Wales speaks Welsh fluently, and that everyone in Scotland speaks Gaelic. Ianto probably speaks Wenglish at best, and Carson probably knows a few drinking songs, but that's about it!

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

*makes soothing noises back at you* ;)

I think they're a little past calling each other by job titles (unless you're writing a completely different kind of fic...)
*spits coffee* Okay, now you owe me a new keyboard... But yes! Exactly!

I know what you mean about the language thing. The Carson one frustrates me more than the Ianto one - it's possible, but unusual. If you're going to do it, justify it!

[aeshna_uk]

Welcome to fanfiction! ;) I feel your pain....

Thin Ianto.

Time for an old rant with much generalisation. ;) I'll say right now that there is some excellent fic out there in all genres - slash, het and gen - but Sturgeon's Law applies and after a while you do become aware of certain themes running through some parts of the fictional output....

I long ago came to the conclusion that fanwriters can generally be divided into those who want to explore the characters and/or worlds presented to them in canon, and those who mostly want to fit the latest pretties into their own particular button-pushing fantasies. It happens with slash, it happens with het, but somehow it's all the more noticeable in the slash. I swear, every slash fandom seems to have one character who invariably ends up being written as, basically, a bad romance novel heroine - small and delicate, emotionally fragile (this would be the crying and the Talking About Feelings), given to dramatic gestures, and physically devoid of any male secondary sexual characteristics (chest hair? stubble?), while the Preferred Partner is often made more masculine (this would be the bit about Jack's broad shoulders!). But because they have an extra dangly bit it's all just fine... because apparently only female OCs can ever be Mary-Sues, right? What the character is actually like on screen/in print, in terms of physical appearance and personality, really has nothing to do with it, because it's the dynamic that matters. The characters involved are just pretty toys to be replaced in that dynamic when the Next Big Thing comes along.

And yes, if that's what folks like, then they'll happily treat the fandom as a fan-created literary genre and ignore the canon. Because what they want isn't in the canon, but the fanon. I don't think it's a conscious thing, but I think that it taps into the same sort of emotional-chocolate vibe that Mills and Boon and others of that ilk do. And that's great if that's what you're into, but if it's not, you really need to get good at spotting it in the headers and fast. ;)

(Poor Ianto - from the moment he turned up, you just knew that he was going to be the latest in that long line of dubiously feminised unfortunates. Heck, even DW!Jack got it somewhat. But it's as old as the hills - I used to print out Professionals slash for my mother (dating back to the 70s/80s) and often as not, there was poor Doyle with his delicate build and his emerald eyes (note: jewel-tone eyes are usually a good indicator of tripe!) and his fragile sensibilities, which makes you wonder if they'd ever actually watched the show....)

Still, it does fill a genuine demand, I guess, both amongst those who genuinely enjoy reading it and those who like to write whatever they think will get them the most feedback. And it's really not that hard to avoid if you know it's out there.

Amen on the 'real people being crap talking about their feelings'! Especially guys. And on the use of language - accent is best put across through word choice and speech patterns in my experience, and should never, under any circumstances be attempted phonetically because what the writer hears and translates to is dependent on their own accent. Seriously - I used to hang around in Star Wars fandom and there were occasions when non-British writers would attempt to write an RP accent phonetically. Was not pretty! :)

Gambit... well, I promise I won't hold it against you. ;)

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

those who mostly want to fit the latest pretties into their own particular button-pushing fantasies
Oh yes. What's been getting me is that so many of them seem to be someone else's recycled fantasies - a good writer puts something down, and suddenly, there are 80 badfics running with the same theme.

I think that it taps into the same sort of emotional-chocolate vibe that Mills and Boon and others of that ilk do.
*nods* My problem is, of course, that Mills and Boon are very good at what they do (apparently the editors are very good at spotting people who write them for love and people who write them for money) but that so many of these fics are trying and failing to fill this need. And I love a good fluffy romance as much as the next chocoholic, but it's got to be the good stuff. Green & Black's Maya gold, not a non-fat Flyte bar.

those who like to write whatever they think will get them the most feedback.
I get very depressed when my fluffy, written for fun, hint of Jack/Ianto stuff gets quadruple the comments of my serious stuff. Tis the way of things, and my own fault for writing the fluff, but it still makes me sad, mostly because I can't tell if the comments are because it's good fluff, or because it's Jack/Ianto.

accent is best put across through word choice and speech patterns in my experience
The number of pieces where the dialogue is wrong and flat and blank never ceases to amaze me. even if people don't read, surely they listen? Can't they hear that people use words differently?

non-British writers would attempt to write an RP accent phonetically.
*blinks* that's possible? The mind boggles.

Gambit... well, I promise I won't hold it against you
*grin* Of course, can't think why I'd like a good-looking, mysterious, wise-cracking, charming, ruthless, redeemed conman...

[greyias.livejournal.com]

Ahahaha! #4 I am so guilty of. I remember a few years ago there was one fic one of my friends was betaing that almost half was marked in red because I kept using the same epithet over and over again.

I think they have a tendency to be much worse in a scene with three or more characters of the same gender. Epithets are the bane of every writer's existence, such an easy easy trap to fall into.

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

Epithets can be hard to train yourself out of, for sure. But people really don't read the characters' names - you put down the word and they see the face, mostly. It's a hard balance to strike, though, using pronouns and names so that things actually make sense!

[becky-h.livejournal.com]

Amen, word, etc.

And to add my peeve, as I (finally) start reading again:

A little telling goes a long way. Being subtle is not a bad thing. Assuming your readers are idiots is. You do not have to beat people to death with exaggarated emotion, action and narrative to get your point across. You do not have to spell everything out in massive red, bold font. This plays in, in part, to the not making them cry and paying attention to how they talk to each other, but it's also just - god dammit, back off, tell your story and leave the reader alone (and room!) to interpret it!

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

Ah, the joys of show don't tell. I'm working on something on that for torchwood_meta, which is probably what's triggered the rant. That and the decision to start actually reading fic again, instead of rolling my eyes and scrolling on. I've found gems and dross, as is the way of all things.

As someone who goes too far in the other direction, all I can say is a massive YES! to the above - there's no assumption that the reader has a brain in some stories, which is just plain sad.

[topaz-eyes.livejournal.com]

Maybe he has secret longings to be Cleopatra and bathes in milk as well, although how he ships it in is anyone's guess… (okay, I'm going to stop there because I feel crack!fic coming and need to lie down until it goes away)

Wriiiiiite it...

Epithets are the bane of writing. I'm sure it's something taught in school, to "enlarge vocabulary" or to "practise descriptive writing." So I share your pain.

I do have an issue with using "the other man" because that is an epithet itself, and I always notice it in fic (read "trip and fall badly then hit the back button"). If the POV character wouldn't use that to describe the non-POV character, IMHO it shouldn't be used.

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

Wriiiiiite it...
As soon as I'm done with the eighty deadlines I have looming... ;)

I think everyone has a phrase that makes them blink. Mine his 'his/her lover' - I can't stand it, and always try to get people I beta for to take it out. I use 'the other man' because sometimes it seems to be the only practical option, and I usually use it in comparison, if repetition of the name would be too clumsy for words ("Jack was x-ing/in x place, watching the other man"). Do you just stick to pronouns or names? I'm not sure how I'd solve blocking issues without it.

[donutsweeper.livejournal.com]

I offer donuts out of respect for such a wonderful rant.

Re: the zedPM thing- I would read it as Z not Zed, but I don't want it written out as zed because it's just silly and distracting. I know Rodney would say it that way, we don't need it spelled out for us.

May I also add a tiny addendum to your eye color rant? If, as a writer you are going to mention the eye color make sure you actually know what you are talking about!

House has blue eyes. Wilson brown. But no matter how dramatic or romantic a scene is if you write "Blue eyes met green" I will laugh, shake my head in disgust, and quit reading your story.

And too add to your 'listening to the characters' rant: Please remember where/when your show is set. Jack and Ianto would take a lift, House and Wilson an elevator. Sheppard does not wear a jumper, in fact he'd probably punch you for suggesting that (jumper=/= sweater in the USA, it's a dress). NCIS and Atlantis are influenced by military mindsets and it probably would not be considered a good idea to try to swallow your same sex partner's tongue in the middle of the day when surrounded by coworkers. If Wilson is dating Amber (aka CTB) then the original ducklings are no longer House's fellows.

*hugs Jades for her awesomeness*

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

*grin* This could so easily have turned into a US/UK English rant, but I had too much material to include it all. Even if you know and understand the difference between pants/trousers, suspenders/braces, if it's the wrong language for your POV character, then it's probably wrong!

The eye colour one - well, that's just daft. You have to wonder what colour the author's eyes are... The whole thing makes me smile, because my own eyes (and ALOT of other people's) are quite different colours depending on what light I'm in. Particularly with greeny-blue eyes, it can be really hard to tell.

Sheppard's 'hazel' eyes are my current bugbear, and always make me want to go find a picture to check...

Thanks for the donuts! *hugs back*

[apiphile.livejournal.com]

I agree very much with pretty much every single thing you've said. I actually got into a rather mean conversation today about the probability of "emo cutter Ianto fic" on the internet and the likelihood of needing to mock it.

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

*grin* Does Torchwood have an MST comm? Because it really, really should...

I've read (and beta'd) "emo cutter Ianto fic" that worked, but most of it? Seriously not. Mocking is the only possible way out...

[crystalshard.livejournal.com]

Yes. Yes, yes, yes. Especially the bit about Jack and/or Ianto crying. C'mon, folks, extreme circumstances here!

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

There doesn't seem to be any understanding of the phrase 'context is everything'. Sobbing has its place. It's just not in most of those stories.

[rachel68620.livejournal.com]

*joins donutsweeper in the hugging of Jades for her awsomeness*

Oh and allow me to be added to the chorus of Amen. Jack is not a wimpy guy, he's more of a man;s man. He doesn't cry at the drop of a hat. I mean yes, I know there's Estelle and Captain Jack!. But those were both extreme circumstances. Otherwise he keeps it bottled up. Oh wait, there was that instance in Adam as well, but again extreme circumstance. The way I see it, if Jack were a crier he'd have done it while on the Valliant being tortured by the Master.



And this is why I can't read 99.9% of the Janto fic out there. It comes off as being terribly OOC for me.

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

That's a really good point about when Jack cries - when he's grieving. All of the times on that list, he's just lost someone. But he then picks himself up and gets on with things. It seems to make him angry, not emo.

And Ianto's pretty much king of repression, so again, tears are fine if you give him a reason, but it had better be a pretty damn good one!

[travels-in-time.livejournal.com]

Re "the other man", I know what you mean here, but if you think two guys onscreen are bad, try writing three, two of whom go by "Ray". The blocking is...difficult. *cries*

[tintop-lizzy.livejournal.com]

Look, just get one of them to take off a shirt and it becomes much much clearer...;)