Quick Utopia Reaction

[jadesfire]

[I'm typing quickly before heading out to church, so I make no promises about sequence of thought or lack of typos]

I had a slightly different reaction to Utopia from most people...

I've just had a scan through people's responses to Utopia, which seem to boil down to "Meh. But Jack!yay!" For me, despite the mega-truck-sized plot holes and the awful, awful future kind (why haven't more people mentioned them? Oh good grief, "show me your teeth?" Please), it wasn't that bad.

Yes, I felt really, really bad for Jack, was really cross at Ten and had complete "oh, Martha" moments when they were talking about Rose ("Oh, she was blonde" was priceless - great line). But this is what I was supposed to feel. We were supposed to be reminded that Ten isn't human and isn't, actually, very nice.

I've been remembering an interview with Sylvester McCoy (Seven, for those of you too young to remember...) who said they set out to restore some of the Doctor's mystery. They did this by dropping plot hints and by having him be not quite as 'normal' as the other Doctors. RTD has been doing it by really and truly making the Doctor alien in every way. It's as though losing Rose has made him feel his 'lastness' even more, and it's making him hard and cavelier with people's feelings, which is something we don't want the Doctor to be. We want to like him, we want to feel he could be our friend. We don't want to be scared by him and we don't want him to say things we don't like.

But he does. In some ways, in Utopia, I felt as much pity for the Doctor as I did for Jack - he always loses people, always. I don't know that I read his explanation to Jack as a metaphor of any kind, more that they need an explanation and this is one that will cause the greatest emotional reaction. If it had been "well, I was kind of busy regenerating, and so I didn't know" we would have been sympathetic, waited for Jack to kiss the Doctor and all to be well with the world. Instead, they've chosen a much harder route, to create greater friction between them. The banter, the sniping, Jack's pain; none of them would have worked as well if the Doctor had just been "oh, for heaven's sake, I said I was sorry!". So from a writing point of view, it makes sense. You're always going to choose the option that gives you the most drama.

Plus, I loved Jack calling the Doctor on it: "You're prejudiced". Go Jack.

Yes, he was reduced to tech-boy again, but that's inevitable - when he's back in TW, he gets the limelight again, but it's the Doctor's show, not Jack's, so for now he'll just have to go on electrocuting himself in a good cause. Oh, and the Doctor cleaning his glasses while he waits for Jack to wake up after that? Brilliant.

Okay, so that ended up waaaaaay longer than I'd intended - one of the perils of having a typing speed that can keep up with your brain - and it's only about half of it. John Simm was wonderful - madly, manically brilliant, and I loved "Chan tho". A genuinely original idea for an alien. I may have to sit down. The effects were great, mostly, and although the "stop it" scenes felt a little forced, they were still fun.

My wishes for the next episode include more Jack & Martha banter, cos they're great together; lots more John Simm, who was awesome; and the Doctor and Jack managing to come to terms with each other. Okay, so the last one's just wishful thinking, but a girl can dream, can't she?

Just no-one talk to me about the future kind, unless you want another rant this long about painful plot devices and pathetic ideas for 'aliens'.

Comments

[beccaelizabeth]

*nods*

[szm.livejournal.com]

i'm on my phone at work so excuse the formating. i agree, i liked the interactions between the three main characters (four if you count Rose). i also liked how the doctor doesn't in any way blame Rose for Jack's condition.

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

RTD's Rose obsession is still showing, but at least she's not forgotten, the way he never talked about Jack...

I hadn't thought about the Doctor possibly blaming her, but it's nice that my theory about why Jack ended up immortal was proved right. That's always a good feeling :)

[crystalshard.livejournal.com]

*nod* Yup. I may be alone in this, but I LIKED the way that the Doctor was so alien. It's as if, having been so human a few episodes ago, he wants to ignore that human side completely. He does what he thinks is right, and what anyone else thinks isn't relevant.

I did love how Jack called him on being prejudiced and abandoning him. And the "I can't look at you - you're wrong," moment rather neatly puts paid to the Doctor-and-Jack-roam-together-forever idea.

The plot was . . . thin, to say the least. If I'd been beta'ing that script, I would probably have made a few sharp comments. You know what I'm like :)

I really loved Martha in this. Poor girl, still in Rose's shadow, but still taking everything in her stride. The Jack and Martha chemistry just worked so well.

Must go watch again.

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

This episode seems to be totally polarising the fans (and my f-list right now). The script had serious issues and JB isn't great at delivering exposition and the whole "man who can't die" plot hole? *sigh*

BUT I found it a satisfying resolution. I was shouting at the screen for the Doctor to be nicer to him, which I take actually to be a good thing - I'm engaged, I'm involved and I care. Just because it's not nice, doesn't mean it's not good.

And OH, poor Martha. I'm going to have to write her a nice story when the series is over to reward her immense patience with the Doctor...

[hellenebright.livejournal.com]

This episode seems to be totally polarising the fans

Especially the ones saying that they don't believe Uncle Rusty - it's all a really tacky allegory of homophobia (that one is really starting to piss me off) and the real dialogue didn't go like that, the TARDIS really loves Jack, and so on....

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

*blinks* Seriously? Oh dear... Trees shaking...nuts everywhere...

[hellenebright.livejournal.com]

You said it.... no, the theory goes that the whole Ten/Jack thing is a really bad allegory for the way RTD feels about homophobia, it isn't how the real story went. And Ten is lying when he says the TARDIS was trying to get away from Jack, 'cos of course Ten doesn't understand the TARDIS the way Jack does...

I've even got someone arguing with me that the shot at the very end of EoD showing Jack running across Roald Dahl Plass isn't really Jack, and isn't anything to do with the start of Utopia, it's just a random shot that Chibnall (or the infinite number of bloody monkeys) put in, because of course the TARDIS materialised in the Hub.

***headdesk***

Now if you wanted to ask where in his frantic run Jack stopped to get a hairdo, I'd go with that, as his hair is an inch and a half longer and four shades darker at the start of Utopia than it was at the end of EoD.

[crystalshard.livejournal.com]

Oh, it worked very well. The dialogue was fantastic, and the chemistry sizzled. I just wish it had had a slightly stronger plot. Or, at least, I hope it follows up the Utopia thing in the next couple of episodes.

One thing that did occur to me when re-watching it - by definition, nothing survives the collapse of the universe. Probably not even the Time Vortex, since we've seen that that's linked only to our universe. Nothing - except for the Void.

So if Utopia exists, they've found a way to punch through to the Void at that set of coordinates. Which means that Utopia (Heaven) is actually situated in the Void (Hell).

On top of that, was I the only one who smelled a trap when the Professor was going on about a call to the last of all the humans? Why only humans? Don't the rest of the sapient species want to survive too? Or is there something in the Void that wants them for some reason?

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

I wondered about the 'human trap' thing. Not the void thing too much, as that's a bit twisty for my "ooh! Jack! Pretty!" distracted brain. I got a bit lost in that bit anyway and the other half got the YANA thing waaay before me, which is just embarrassing. I think I need to rewatch. For plot, not pretties this time. Honest ;)

I love that we like to make ourselves special. It runs through a surprising amount of sci-fi - B5 is particularly keen on it. I understand why, but you're right, I did wonder about why just humans? And, you know, wasn't Cassandra supposed to be the last? Where are they all coming from? I suppose it saves a small fortune in prosthetics :D

[crystalshard.livejournal.com]

I'm afraid that I didn't get the YANA thing before they showed us. I did figure out that he was the Master at about the point where people's voices started echoing in his head, though, and got looked at very oddly when I squeaked 'Regeneration!' at that point.

Yes - I think you're right. Though I would have loved to see humans as clouds of gas. Yay evolution!

Knowing Jack, he'd find a way to flirt with a cloud of gas. And probably come home grinning.

[donutsweeper.livejournal.com]

ah yes.. Cassandra... you're the first person I've seen mention her. She was written as the LAST human, yet now there is a huge ship full of them, I am confused!

[hellenebright.livejournal.com]

Yes, it did feel as if half the plot was missing. Was this Earth - surely not, as Sol III will be gone long before the Big Whump. Where were these people coming from? This was Chantho's planet, so what were they doing there? What is this beacon - is it something the Master set up for himself? Hopefully we'll get more of it, but I'm not confident.

[hab318princess.livejournal.com]

Agree with the human trap thing, before it being the Master, assumed it might be the Daleks - one did emergency time shift! Any takers for this theory?

[unfeathered]

I loved the Doctor's 'alienness' too, and I certainly enjoy being scared by him. Some of my favourite characters are those you love, understand most of the time, but don't always like. Especially when they get all scary and old. Think Angel when he was threatening someone, reminding them he wasn't the young man he looked but something far older and scarier.

But yes, I agree about the futurekind. There was just enough great stuff for me not to care too much.

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

Definitely. The alienness is such a good thing, and for me, builds on DT's first season as the Doctor. Rose made him more human, something that he's really lost since he lost her. I hope they let him move on a little next series though, as it's an idea that could get really tired, really quickly.

[miss-zedem.livejournal.com]

Yep, I loved the Doc in this *checks own rant* yep, definitely said Doc was awesome. I didn't want him to be 'oh Jack I luff you *kiss*' and he wasn't. He was annoyed, he was having trouble looking at him, and he freely admitted that he'd tried to run away.

But, there was also a moment in it that made me squee loudly and which for me neatly encapsulates the difference between Jack and the Doc. When they're running away from the strange teeth people, and Jack draws his gun and the Doc yells 'Jack, don't you dare' - for me that proved what I've been saying all along. Jack thinks he's emulating the Doc when he makes decisions about life and death, but he's so not. The Doc genuinely respects life in all its forms, and will always give beings a chance, even when they're trying to kill him. Jack just doesn't, and possibly can't cos he's too human, have that kind of detachment.

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

I noticed that as well - the Doctor can't stand arms of any kind, although I tend to think it's a dislike of weapons, give what he does to the Family of Blood, where death would have been a mercy. The Doctor prefers to let people destroy themselves (which actually runs all the way back to the early Doctors as well, it's not a recent thing) which is obviously helpful from the writing point of view (killers tend not to be as likeable) but I can't help feeling that somehow Jack's direct "shoot 'em now, ask questions later" approach is sometimes the more sensible one. *shrugs* I may have to think about that some more...

I'm going to wander round everyone's journal on my morning off tomorrow, before heading back to my desk. Assuming I can find my desk under the piles of books...

[idontlikegravy.livejournal.com]

I wonder sometimes if the difference between Jack and the Doctor is a metaphor for the differences between the UK and the US.
Just an idle thought, no deep and meaningfuls behind it. (And I know JB is really Scottish)

[unfeathered]

I wonder sometimes if the difference between Jack and the Doctor is a metaphor for the differences between the UK and the US.

Ooh yes, that's a good one, though hard to go into without getting - um, what's the word - countryist? :-)

[idontlikegravy.livejournal.com]

One could say patriotic rather than taking a jingoistic stance, but I know what you mean. ;)

[hellenebright.livejournal.com]

the Doctor can't stand arms of any kind

Actually, I think he can't stand to use personal weapons. He blew the Racnos offspring up (although UNIT took the Queen out). He let K9 blow the...erm...thingies in the school up. He let Kathaka blow the Jaggrafest up (you'll have to xcuse the spelling - I can't be arsed to look all the names up). He let Cassandra blow herself up (moisturise me!) He blew The Wire up. He let Rose blow the plastic thingy (in Rose) up.

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

All good points. I think he just likes things that go bang. Have you seen the Third Doctor episode "The Time Warrior"? It's the first Sarah Jane one and has the Doctor making stink bombs. Excellent. It also has my favourite Doctor Who quote, that I use at every possible opportunity.

Sarah: Are you serious?
Doctor: About what I do, but not necessarily the way I do it.

Seems just right, although he's lost the playfulness with age, certainly in this regeneration.

[hellenebright.livejournal.com]

Oh yes, now you mention it, I do recall that.

And of course Seven had Ace blowing all sorts of things up.

[hab318princess.livejournal.com]

You know, I agree with a lot about the future kind, had not really thought about them, too Jack focussed! :) Like the barbs between them and how Jack makes the Doctor feel, it felt real. Jack feeling abandoned - that really gelled with how I saw him. Loved the line about Jack falling in love with himself - ended up shouting at the screen as I remembered ep 12 of Torchwood.

Felt for Jack, with dying on the Tardis and the electrocution, that was 4 deaths in about a week!

Re Teeth: At least Jack wasn't comparing his with those of an english guy, that would have been really scary!

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

I kicked myself for missing the "falling in love with yourself" line. I was too busy thinking about the writing, which I seem to have got kind of hooked on. Sometimes I can't see the story for the mechanics.

Good point about how many times he's died this week - Owen, then Abbadon, then the TARDIS then electrocution. That's got to be a personal record...

[(Anonymous)]

yeah, there was a lot of material in there. I've already written out that great scene with the Doctor where they talk, now to find time to write it out and to use it and the rest.

Actually it might be 5, he 'tripped the system' with that stet radiation!

[hab318princess.livejournal.com]

Sorry, that was me, had not logged on!

[hab318princess.livejournal.com]

Sorry, that was me, had not logged in!

[pinkamethyst.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I had the almost exactly the same reaction as you. Didn't like the future kind. But the rest of the episode? Loved it. The Doctor's complete alien-ness is what makes him him. All the way through, RTD has been pointing out that the Doctor is not human. It makes sense for him to not react in a human way. So, whilst a human would've been pleased that Jack's alive (hell, maybe even Nine would've been pleased because Nine and Jack had that connection), the Doctor's not because it goes against all the rules of the universe.

John Simm, oh, how brilliant was he? :D I love John Simm anyway, but just his total madness made it so real, if you know what I mean? Am I the only one who thought "wow, he's a little bit like the Doctor..." when he was being all manic?

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

I think I found it the most satisfying solution - I thought it was mean and nasty to Jack and thought DT underplayed it a little - even if it was hard to watch. Although it did let Jack call the Doctor on being 'prejudiced', which was worth the price of admission on its own.

There's a definite element of the Doctor in John Simm's performance, perhaps inevitably, and probably appropriately. Am already bouncing in anticipation of next week.

[hellenebright.livejournal.com]

I've confined myself to a one liner in the comms (boy, there are a few people out there who *really* need to take a chill pill and listen to some seagull music!), but I agree with everything you say. The futurekind were crap, the Utopia plot felt like half of it was missing, but the interaction with the characters was excellent.

Jack and Ten - Ten is...frightened...of him? Or was when he closed the doors and ran for it. He couldn't face him. He left him behind because he couldn't face him. Even the TARDIS can't face him (and about a million fics bit the dust when he said that). And then, that last moment in the reactor room, and Jack says he doesn't want to die, he wants to see it all, through to the end. And Ten gives him that...wolfish? feral?...grin that he has, because suddenly they've hit something in common.

And Martha, taking everything in her stride. Trying to make Chantho swear (on the comms, people seem to think this was a waste of time, which completely misses the point).

Did you see "Confidential" afterwards? John B trying to make an entire speech in Chantho's language. Hilarious.

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

I decided I wouldn't even look at the comms - reading my f-list is going to keep me busy enough! I've also developed a keener interest in the mechanics of the writing more than anything else, which gives me a slightly skewed view of things.

Frightened is a good word - the look on the Doctor's face when he sees Jack running across the Plass is disbelief and not a little fear. The uneasiness between them is just right and I now think I know why Jack's not going to travel on with the Doctor (okay, how they're going to get him back into Torchwood - I can smell a Macguffin at fifty paces ;)) Also, I'm pretty sure I've figured out how they're going to catch up with the Master.

I'm possibly thinking too much....

[hellenebright.livejournal.com]

Hand McGuffin? Just as long as Tosh didn't really drop the jar and Myfanwy ate the hand, so Ianto had to replace it with one from a cadaver they had lying around (thanks tanarian. I really needed that thought in my head)

And yes, the comms have gone crazy with squeeing fangrrls, and people who apparently fell out the stupid tree to watch Utopia. Sigh.

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

Riiiight...two things: Hand Macguffin? and Tanarian? What the..?

I'm slightly reassured that there are people whose minds work more strangely than mine. Mine was more "The TARDIS doesn't like you, Jack" and "This is a Vortex Manipulator (or whatever)". Much less complicated... I don't know whether to be reassured or worried! ;)

[hellenebright.livejournal.com]

OK. Tanarian = Stalking 101 (http://tanarian.livejournal.com/18488.html?#cutid1)

Hand McGuffin = the Master took the Hand away. What if the Hand flies the TARDIS back to the end of the Universe.

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

Stalking 101? Brilliant.

Hand McGuffin? I'm still at the what the stage. Like, fly it all by itself? Attached to what?

Actually, don't tell me...

[hellenebright.livejournal.com]

C'mon. You've seen the Addams Family. Or at the very least, you've seen Silver's Torchwood Family poster (http://community.livejournal.com/not_gold/10811.html).

[hellenebright.livejournal.com]

Oh, and forgot to say. So far your Waiting Years etc is still looking good.

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

*grin* I thought that! I just need to tweak "Coming Back" and the whole lot will fit quite nicely. Phew!

[idontlikegravy.livejournal.com]

That's more or less the analysis I would have written if my brains hadn't dribbled out my ears with delight. Instead, my posting was slightly...er..incoherent shall we say? ;)

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

*grin* Jack has that effect on most fans...